One thing I have noticed, is that no one realizes that the biggest obstacle to Quality in Management. Quality is an expence, that is on the same level as maintenance. Less is better, at least as far as accounting and management are concerned. They cost money and the only payback is better running equipment and better products, but accounting doesn't care about that. Management is so intent on the bottom line that they could care less also. Just get the product out the door as cheap and as fast as possible. Makes their bonus bigger. As has been said before, "If we quit buying they may get the message"