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Old 07-05-2020, 06:43 AM   #1
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What would you do? Shop trying to get more money from me....

This is really a long story but I’ll try and condense it and get to the point.....

I asked Cummins for a cost and location to uprate the horsepower on my RV engine. The shop told me my engine wasn’t under warranty and the cost was maybe $700 dollars when I was ready to do it.

Three months later I’m ready and ask for oil change, generator service, fuel filters and uprate to be done. He says, let me re-estimate to ensure nothing has changed. Also asks, what is your engine serial number again.

I bring the RV in and all the work is done. Total bill is something like $2K.
However, I need a new engine data plate installed because of the uprate.

Due to Covid, the Cummins plant is shut down and I can’t get a new data plate for a month but they let me take the coach due to the circumstances if I promise to bring it back. (which I do)

When I bring it back, the service guy says good news and bad news.....good news is I have the data plate, bad news is, the engine is in warranty for 5 years. So this means the price to do the uprate is actually $4K. So I will need more money or have to remove the uprate software.

No [moderator edit] way I’m paying $4K so that was an easy decision but I also feel I should be allowed to keep the changed software on the agreed upon price. I had 2 estimates from the Cummins shop and gave them my engine serial number twice and they knew it was for an RV.

Honestly, I thought the engine was only under warranty for 3 years/36K miles as when my fuel line cracked and sprayed fuel for an hour down the highway, Cummins said nope, you aren’t covered....pay up!

So I guess the point of this is, I’m old school. If I ask for an estimate twice (and I think I asked 3 times) and then bring it in, have the work done and pay your shop. How is it right to come back and ask the customer for another $3K before they install the data plate on the engine?

Am I wrong for turning around and leaving the shop?

I emailed Cummins and asked about the warranty and now they say it is 5 years/100K miles for an RV. When asked about what the shop is doing/asking for, the communications from them has stopped. They aren’t responding.
The Cummins shop still calls but I stopped picking up the phone.

I think this is like buying the RV for a set price, you do the paperwork, you get financing, you put down a down-payment, you sign your life away and take ownership and drive away......but you go back to the dealer 6-weeks later for your license plates and they say, good news....we have your plates, bad news is we didn’t charge you enough when we sold you the coach and need another $4k from you or you can’t have the license plates and we’ll just terminate the deal.

I’d like to believe I’m right by having an estimate done, having the work done, paying for the work performed and not paying anymore and keeping my services.

What would you guys do?
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Old 07-05-2020, 07:11 AM   #2
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Drive off, enjoy my new power. In the future find a different shop for service.
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Old 07-05-2020, 07:20 AM   #3
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What was agreed on in writing? That is what you need to pay for and what should have been done.
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Old 07-05-2020, 08:24 AM   #4
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450Don....that’s what I did, drove off and am enjoying the new power. But you’re right, now I have to find a different shop. I was so excited that I found one only 30+ minutes away and now I don’t trust them one iota! Thanks!

KenZ71....yes, that is what was in writing, what I got and what I paid for. Thanks!

Making sure I’m in the right about this and so far it seems like I am.
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Old 07-05-2020, 08:25 AM   #5
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SueRVEd,

Sorry to hear of your problem. From your post I'm assuming you did not get the estimates in writing which opens the door to low ball estimates. HOWEVER, if you did get the estimates in writing you have some legal standing here in Illinois.

From my understanding, which may be faulty as I'm not a lawyer, here in Illinois we have a couple of options:
First, I would ask the Shop to give you a new written estimate/statement stating that they misquoted the cost originally and didn't realize the cost difference until After they completed the work.


Next: Consult an Attorney. DISCLAIMER - I AM NOT AN ATTORNEY. I'm offering information from my experience as an fellow Illinois resident.

IMHO; If No Written Estimate detailing work and cost was provided it will be your word against theirs BUT if they give you the requested statement you will have documentation to support your claim.

If you continue to ignore the shop's attempts to collect they have several options to take action against you. 1) They can go to small claims court against you. 2) They can file a lien on your vehicle which here in Illinois is VERY EASY to do. All the business has to do is certify that you owe them x dollars. The SOS doesn't even notify you until months have past. 3) The shop can, and probably will notify Cummins that you have refused to pay for the upgrade and the new data plate has not been installed which will result in problems for you when you take it in for service in the future. When the new shop enters your VIN a Cummins flag will appear notifying them that your vehicle is operating illegally and instructing them to immediately remove the upgrade software.


IF your estimate is in writing or you obtain the suggested written statement I mentioned earlier you may want to: 1) consult with your County Prosecutor about any laws the shop may have or will have broken if you pay the bill and possible prosecution. 2) Even if the Prosecutor refuses to prosecute you can file a written complaint against Shop with the State Attorney General's office for business practices. 3) You can file an official written complaint with Cummins detailing the situation; they may or may not take action to remove them from their authorized dealers listing and software usage. 3) Post their name and info on this and other sites so other DP owners will not use them. warning. 4) Consider filing a small claims court action against the shop and in doing so in Illinois you can ask the court to subpoena the individual(s) who gave you the initial and second estimates as well as the one who explained the final fill. You may be able to ask for the opportunity to depose them before the court date which requires an attorney and video/transcription team which gets expensive but, it is my understanding that if you win you can ask the court to require the shop to reimburse you for all expenses.

I wish you the best. I know the frustration you are feeling.

Drive safe - Richard
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Old 07-05-2020, 09:14 AM   #6
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Rrtribble.....holy mother of God!

I did get the estimate in writing and did have all the work done. I went back and paid what they originally asked for. Even when we finished paying and they said they needed to install the data plate, my wife asked if there were any hidden costs with the installation. They claimed no and she said, write that on the “paid” receipt so we don’t get charged extra, in which they did.

It doesn’t sound like they have legal action against me but am concerned I’ll be blackballed in the system and something may happen down the road in years to come when maintenance work is being performed.

Appreciate the feedback and now I have new thoughts running thru my head.
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Old 07-05-2020, 09:21 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SueRVEd View Post
450Don....that’s what I did, drove off and am enjoying the new power. But you’re right, now I have to find a different shop. I was so excited that I found one only 30+ minutes away and now I don’t trust them one iota! Thanks!

KenZ71....yes, that is what was in writing, what I got and what I paid for. Thanks!

Making sure I’m in the right about this and so far it seems like I am.
You may be right. However, a couple of folks agreeing with you on a forum doesn’t necessarily make you right.

Your signature shows the coach is a 2015. It is now 2020. When does the 5 year warranty expire?

Perhaps a discussion with the shop on a way to remedy the situation might lead to an acceptable solution.

If you feel that the shop was less than forthcoming about the scope of the work and the cost estimate, you might ask them to delete the software and refund the money, with the understanding that you will return for the upgrade after the warranty expires to have the work performed at an agreed upon price.

That way you won’t be operating a coach with a half-cocked upgrade and you’ll be free of concerns about future service or legal matters.
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Old 07-05-2020, 09:24 AM   #8
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SueRVEd,

Since you have it in writing you have some protection!!!!! for which I am glad for you.

If it were me in this situation I would email Cummins Support with the name of the Shop, the people you talked to and explain you paid what the original estimate was and include a copy of your estimate and paid invoice. Tell them you are concerned that the shop may try to blackball you with Cummins and ASK them how they would recommend you proceed.

QUESTION - Do you or do you not have the new Data Plate? If the shop refused to apply it to your RV unless you paid the additional fees I would mention this to Cummins also.

ASK them for their guidance in this matter so that you will not be penalized by a future Cummins shop when service is needed.

Some of these, but thank the Lord there are not to many shops like this but surprises do happen, as you know.

Best wishes - Richard
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Old 07-05-2020, 09:41 AM   #9
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This mistake isn't costing Cummins anything! All they did was make some changes to the ECM, exactly the same as they would have if they knew your engine was still under warranty.

Hard to believe they would pursue this!
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:14 AM   #10
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Bring it back in 2 years when it is past the 5 year warranty and tell them you are back for your data plate.
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:24 AM   #11
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I agree with the post that advises to deal directly with Cummins.


The only reason I can think of that the upgrade would cost more if the engine was under warranty is because Cummins must pay for costs to the engine now that it has been modified and, like insurers, it secures a pool of money from all purchasers to defray those costs.



Cummins relies on it's authorized shops to make the upgrades and collect the additional money. This shop made a mistake, which they discovered when securing a new data plate from Cummins. They probably realized they will have to pay Cummins, through billing that they may not have received yet, an amount for the upgrade that exceeded what they already had planned to pay, and now they are short. So, they come after the customer.


Contacting Cummins moves the issue to an authoritative source. The amount of time remaining on your warranty appears to be very limited. Cummins may consider that fact, along with a clear understanding that their shop made a mistake that is entirely their responsibility, and waive the additional cost demand. They may even offer to waive the cost but also void the remaining time on the warranty.


Regardless, I think you should deal directly with Cummins with your issue and documentation, but still contact the shop and explain what you are doing to forestall any attempt by them to file a lien or file a small claims suit.
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Old 07-05-2020, 10:43 AM   #12
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All great comments and we thank you!

Reaching back out Cummins appears to be more proper at this point. Like I said earlier, I was in contact with them and when I brought up what had happened, they stopped all communication with me.

Not sure if it was because they thought it was a shop related matter and they didn’t want to be involved or what?

It is 8 more months until the warranty expires so maybe a deal can be worked?

Very frustrating to remove it and reinstall it again as it does provide extra power and why it was done to begin with. Of course, it is now RV time so we are traveling as much as we can until November and utilizing our new found boost.

When the shop calls and I don’t answer, they never leave a message which I find odd because they always left messages before.
Guess I’ll have to answer next time and see what their next move is.

I can reach back out to Cummins too.....I do not have have the data plate but if they sent it to me, I would install it as it’s visible thru the rear bay door and is a peel and stick label made of some type of foil material.

Crazy....thanks again everyone for your thoughts!
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Old 07-05-2020, 11:03 AM   #13
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All great comments and we thank you!

Reaching back out Cummins appears to be more proper at this point. Like I said earlier, I was in contact with them and when I brought up what had happened, they stopped all communication with me.

Not sure if it was because they thought it was a shop related matter and they didn’t want to be involved or what?

It is 8 more months until the warranty expires so maybe a deal can be worked?

Very frustrating to remove it and reinstall it again as it does provide extra power and why it was done to begin with. Of course, it is now RV time so we are traveling as much as we can until November and utilizing our new found boost.

When the shop calls and I don’t answer, they never leave a message which I find odd because they always left messages before.
Guess I’ll have to answer next time and see what their next move is.

I can reach back out to Cummins too.....I do not have have the data plate but if they sent it to me, I would install it as it’s visible thru the rear bay door and is a peel and stick label made of some type of foil material.

Crazy....thanks again everyone for your thoughts!
Good luck on your quest, and please keep us updated.


It's not clear how you first communicated with Cummins, but now you should, IMO, communicate via email or USPS directly with someone in authority, by name, if possible. You may have to do some homework to find an email address to an actual person,but you should try.



You are making a different level of contact this time. It should be presented in the most formal, logical, and document supported way. No emotional or anecdotal information. After laying out your facts and position, state firmly that you expect a reply. Period. No threats, just an expectation given the gravity of the situation. Offer to provide any and all additional details, if needed, and include your personal contact information.


Then, wait.


Again, good luck (and no, that's not sarcasm.)
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Old 07-05-2020, 05:58 PM   #14
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I ran into something similar with my ISL 370. The software load to make it a ISL 400 was around $700, but Cummins would only sell it to me in the form of a "re-manufactured" ECM that cost around $3000. It came with an ECM warranty, but who cares? The shop told me privately that they had the capability but would lose their Cummins authorized service status if they just loaded the new software. And no Cummins dealer would work on my engine if it had an "unauthorized modification". I did NOT get my upgrade.
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