Community Forums

Solo_RV_Guy · 09-22-2021, 12:23 PM

... you know things are bad.

Lawyer and "not an RV industry fan boy" Steve Lehto discusses:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efuS1g7GvHc

Roy-c · 09-22-2021, 01:52 PM

Big surprise there. He is right but even long time members of this and other RV forums are willing to buy a new unit while knowing about all of these issues and then they act surprised and complain when they have problems.
I guess I just don't understand that train of thought.

atreis · 09-22-2021, 02:59 PM

Where are the references? Which RV dealers, specifically, have stated that they're fed up? Which brands/manufacturers did they say they are fed up with? Where are the references to back this up? Without that, this isn't responsible journalism, it's just someone running their mouth through their fingers.

FWIW, my RV was ordered in October 2020 and delivered in February of this year, and had one issue fixed at PDI. None since. I may have just gotten lucky, but I'm a happy camper.

emiddleb · 09-22-2021, 03:06 PM

Here is the original article that is the base for this video...

https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/

atreis · 09-22-2021, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emiddleb

Here is the original article that is the base for this video...

https://www.rvtravel.com/pathetic-qu...oducing-1017b/

Yes. The guy that made the YouTube video gave proper reference to the article. It's the article that's lacking in meaningful references. What RV dealers? Are these RV dealers referring to Forest River? Thor? Newell? Leisure Travel Van? Foretravel? Class A? B? C? trailers? hybrids? pop-ups? All of the above and more? Where are the statistics to back up the claims? If the claims of the article are true, there should be statistics available from the RV dealer(s) that show increased warranty claims. There should be similar expenses on the manufacturer balance sheets showing increased warranty expenditures per unit. Without that, it's pure unsubstantiated speculation, with as much validity as you or I saying it while downing a brew next to the campfire.

Ljwt330 · 09-22-2021, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atreis

Yes. The guy that made the YouTube video gave proper reference to the article. It's the article that's lacking in meaningful references. What RV dealers? Are these RV dealers referring to Forest River? Thor? Newell? Leisure Travel Van? Foretravel? Class A? B? C? trailers? hybrids? pop-ups? All of the above and more? Where are the statistics to back up the claims? If the claims of the article are true, there should be statistics available from the RV dealer(s) that show increased warranty claims. There should be similar expenses on the manufacturer balance sheets showing increased warranty expenditures per unit. Without that, it's pure unsubstantiated speculation, with as much validity as you or I saying it while downing a brew next to the campfire.

No dog in this fight for me.

However, the prologue to the article clearly states that names of dealers will not be disclosed for purposes of producing candid conversations. One may question the validity of the reason, but it does account for the lack of any identifying information about the "complaining" dealers.

As far as missing data, that is a valid criticism. Choosing not to mention manufacturers or dealers by name is one thing, but if there are issues with the product quality from the manufacturer, it is easy to quantify the resulting returns, call backs, or warranty charges without disclosing from which product they resulted. If the dealers had cited specific costs and/or numbers of warranty claims, types of RVs involved, and monetary impacts, that would give the entire article some solid leg to stand on.

SmilingSam · 09-24-2021, 10:03 PM

STUPIDLY even these days, even detroit has shown (well after japanese spank murcan fanny for quality) that QUALITY BUILT IN is so much mo cheaper than doing all that expensive 'repair S$%T' that cost 10x mo than if done on assembly line.

$$ is the god of all but lots of ppl do not get that quality at assembly time is so so so much cheaper than 'correction' which is a FOOL's idiot game.

I ALWAYS pondered the question, WHAT IF HONDA OR TOYOTA MADE RV's, how much better would they be ????

Forest Gump - 'STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES' !! OR

Can NOT fix STUPID !!

ps: bad procedures produce bad products, it takes brains to create Excellent Quality procedures - ask Tesla about that one !!!

SuperGewl · 09-25-2021, 12:52 PM

Well if they followed the old adage of "Quality goes in, before the name goes on" then there would not be an issue. But as others have so stated, it's cheaper to do it right the first time during the initial build than having to fix it after it is out the door.

If the QA inspector actually did their job it would not leave the factory. Maybe if the QA inspector had to sign some paper work and leave it with the product so the enduser could use it when they ask for repairs on something that was reported as working correctly or installed correctly the factory then could dock the pay of that inspector and installer for the amount of the repair they would make sure it was done right the first time.
Naw they would never go for that.

RRR · 09-25-2021, 02:09 PM

If the dealers want to point fingers about quality from the factory then maybe they should be more concerned about the quality of the repairs they do. As far as I am concerned they are both cut from the same cloth with slightly different pattern.

Kid Gloves · 09-25-2021, 02:17 PM

If you visit the Entegra, Newmar or Tiffin forums, just to name a few, that might provide some insight as to which dealers were interviewed.

Mudfrog · 09-25-2021, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperGewl

Well if they followed the old adage of "Quality goes in, before the name goes on" then there would not be an issue. But as others have so stated, it's cheaper to do it right the first time during the initial build than having to fix it after it is out the door.

If the QA inspector actually did their job it would not leave the factory. Maybe if the QA inspector had to sign some paper work and leave it with the product so the enduser could use it when they ask for repairs on something that was reported as working correctly or installed correctly the factory then could dock the pay of that inspector and installer for the amount of the repair they would make sure it was done right the first time.
Naw they would never go for that.

Most automobiles and trucks come with a 3 year, sometimes longer, bumper to bumper warranty. No doubt that's an incentive to put quality into the build. Most RVs on the other hand, come with a 1 year warranty. Wouldn't surprise me to find out that an RV manufacturer's goal was to get its products to hold up for that 12 months. It doesn't cost them anything after that. In fact, it sometimes ends up bringing in even more profit when repairs are needed because the customer has to pay.

MRUSA14 · 09-25-2021, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmilingSam

I ALWAYS pondered the question, WHAT IF HONDA OR TOYOTA MADE RV's, how much better would they be ????

Won’t happen. There is not enough volume, and not enough standardization in RV’s to support the practices that enable those car manufacturers to provide such reliable products. Which is why Honda and Toyota will never enter the RV business as we know it.

Kid Gloves · 09-25-2021, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudfrog

Most automobiles and trucks come with a 3 year, sometimes longer, bumper to bumper warranty. No doubt that's an incentive to put quality into the build. Most RVs on the other hand, come with a 1 year warranty. Wouldn't surprise me to find out that an RV manufacturer's goal was to get its products to hold up for that 12 months. It doesn't cost them anything after that. In fact, it sometimes ends up bringing in even more profit when repairs are needed because the customer has to pay.

It was recently posted on another thread, that Newmar offers a “factory pick up” option. This option apparently costs a buyer an additional $4000 and a week of their time to go over their new coach and make sure everything works properly.

Solo_RV_Guy · 09-26-2021, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

Won’t happen. There is not enough volume, and not enough standardization in RV’s to support the practices that enable those car manufacturers to provide such reliable products. Which is why Honda and Toyota will never enter the RV business as we know it.

Agree with the bolded text; the rest will require "the free market" to stop buying RVs built to current levels of "quality".

There was a great post a week or 2 ago that covered why the RV industry wasn't a good target for level of robotics and automation that go into auto manufacturing, and while I agree with most of it I can't help but think there are manufacturers with the economies of scale to pull it off for certain model lines. The question is whether or not the buying public will pay what it will cost.