Why do I need an Onan over a Honda Generator

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by Nwcid

6.5 amps of 120 v is 78 amps of 12 v which is 8 amps higher than ArtJoice listed, "and through the converter"....... This also assumes there is a 65 amp or higher converter in the RV.

Are you sure on that math ?

800 ÷ 120 = 6.6 amps.
800 ÷ 12.6 = 63 amps

[awol50]

If you dry camp alot and dont need your air conditioning, a 1-2 kw inverter generator fits just fine. Ultra quiet. Sips gas. Cheap.
Costco has them for about $500.
Beats your onboard genny every way for extended dry camping.
If i dry camped it would be my first purchase.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by awol50

If you dry camp alot and dont need your air conditioning, a 1-2 kw inverter generator fits just fine. Ultra quiet. Sips gas. Cheap.
Costco has them for about $500.
Beats your onboard genny every way for extended dry camping.
If i dry camped it would be my first purchase.

Can I play this out?

Let's assume per your statement "you dry camp a lot and don't need your air conditioning,"
and you are willing to spend $500

You could buy a AGS if you didn't already have one and set it for AUTO and you could truly boondock all day with no generator and then for 1 hour or at most 2 hours every night; the AGS would kick on and fully recharge the batteries and shut itself off. You can even control the time it does all of this.

I have 5500 Micro Quiet and I bet good money that my Onan onboard Genset is just as quiet at my 3500 portable power inverter outside. Neither are quiet enough to run at night with neighbors nearby. Gas cost is negligible, as I run it an hour or so just exercising it with regularity. But to me the biggest thing is it is one less thing to worry about and maintain. I am not sure where I would put my portable 3500 KW power inverter if I were to try to carry on a trip I sure would not want to carry a gas can. And if I need to move or take my RV out, nothing for me to go get to lock up, or worry about being stolen.

Maybe if you guys were talking about bringing portable generators to avoid using those extremely loud Onan Propane models you see in those Mercedes Sprinters Chassis, you might have the motivation; but again where would you stow all of that stuff.

[Nwcid]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Are you sure on that math ?

800 ÷ 120 = 6.6 amps.
800 ÷ 12.6 = 63 amps

No , it was late and I was multitasking and divided the wrong numbers...

I even looked at it twice thinking it looked high. Thanks for catching that.

[awol50]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Can I play this out?

Let's assume per your statement "you dry camp a lot and don't need your air conditioning,"
and you are willing to spend $500

You could buy a AGS if you didn't already have one and set it for AUTO and you could truly boondock all day with no generator and then for 1 hour or at most 2 hours every night; the AGS would kick on and fully recharge the batteries and shut itself off. You can even control the time it does all of this.

I have 5500 Micro Quiet and I bet good money that my Onan onboard Genset is just as quiet at my 3500 portable power inverter outside. Neither are quiet enough to run at night with neighbors nearby. Gas cost is negligible, as I run it an hour or so just exercising it with regularity. But to me the biggest thing is it is one less thing to worry about and maintain. I am not sure where I would put my portable 3500 KW power inverter if I were to try to carry on a trip I sure would not want to carry a gas can. And if I need to move or take my RV out, nothing for me to go get to lock up, or worry about being stolen.

Maybe if you guys were talking about bringing portable generators to avoid using those extremely loud Onan Propane models you see in those Mercedes Sprinters Chassis, you might have the motivation; but again where would you stow all of that stuff.

I have a generator inverter/converter autostart generator. It works just fine as intended. Is a onan diesel. Very quiet.

I am guessing to run it really only to recharge my 4 batteries once per day would use 1-1 1/2 gallons of diesel a day. Run the frig, tv, furnace fan, etc.
To use a small inverter 2000 watt gas generator would use 1/2 gallon of gas per day.
Or save $2-3/day on fuel.
So do the math. Takes alot of dry camping to save $500. Throw in hassle of gasoline too and one more thing to maintain.
Now, not everyone has a quiet built in rv generator. Let alone a diesel genny. I would do it just to have a backup generator not only for the rv, but at home for portable power.
I see you are doing your best to talk me out of getting the little pup. Not fair!

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by awol50

I have a generator inverter/converter autostart generator. It works just fine as intended. Is a onan diesel. Very quiet.

I am guessing to run it really only to recharge my 4 batteries once per day would use 1-1 1/2 gallons of diesel a day. Run the frig, tv, furnace fan, etc.
To use a small inverter 2000 watt gas generator would use 1/2 gallon of gas per day.
Or save $2-3/day on fuel.
So do the math. Takes alot of dry camping to save $500. Throw in hassle of gasoline too and one more thing to maintain.
Now, not everyone has a quiet built in rv generator. Let alone a diesel genny. I would do it just to have a backup generator not only for the rv, but at home for portable power.
I see you are doing your best to talk me out of getting the little pup. Not fair!

No I am not advocating against a portable inverter genset. I have a 3500 Ramsond Sinemate unit that I paid $400 that peeps told me it would not last 1 year, that was 10 years ago and it purrs quietly like a kitten. I have Transfer Switch at home that we feed the house for blackouts, but since we got the RV I hook it to run the RV when it at home, just exercising it primarily.


I was saying that I would never consider hauling that portable genset with me, even if it were only 2000 kw.

You may stay at a site longer than I do, but when I camp I try to run my genset, the more hours the better, noise is not a factor unless it is late night but my AGS takes care of that.

Also if I had 4 batteries, I technically could go 2 full days without a recharge. Our fridge is on Propane when boondocking.

My angle earlier was the what I thought was the perspective that because the gensets were so loud some peeps wanted the portable?

As far as the increased cost per gallon of gas from running, I am 100% sure a Cummins Engineer would agree with me, that besides changing oil filter and oil, running that genset is the best preventative maintenance you can get; so I will write off $10 / trip more as PM cost for my 5500

btw, my backup generator is shorepower or go home But seriously my AGS and genset is prolly my most favorite toy in the entire RV. I can't use it enough.

[ArtJoyce]

Originally Posted by ROUGHRIDER3

You may get about 6 1/2 Amps.......800 watts divided by 120 volts....

That is true for 120V AC, But I charge my batteries with 12v, which 800 watts at 12v is about 64 amps.

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by ArtJoyce

That is true for 120V AC, But I charge my batteries with 12v, which 800 watts at 12v is about 64 amps.

Your using 120 volts from your 800 watt generator to create 13.5 volts thru your 120 volt converter.

First, is 800 watts the sustainable wattage, or the surge watts, of your generstor ?

Second, is your converter rated at 65 amps at charging voltage, and does it have a 100% conversion rate from 120 to 13.5 volts ( no loss ) ?

Third, unless you switch everything 120 volts off, except the converter, some of that 800 watts @ 120 volts is going to be powering other stuff.
Then with everything switched off, any 12 volt items running on battery are going to reduce your charging rate.

My prediction is that you will need a bigger generator for 65 amps of charging or smaller standalone charger that doesn't overload the generator you have.

[Corc]

The 6 & 8 kW ONAN diesel are variable speed inverter generators. They also just released a new variable speed inverter based 2800/2500 so seems progress is being made.

Hard to beat a Honda 2000i if it hits your needs. AIr Conditioning is the big consideration. If you need AC the Honda is not cheaper or quieter. Under load the Honda is noisier than even the ONAN.

I don’t think you can ever justify the decision strictly to on dollars. Like many things in an RV, it’s about what you want and can afford. Logic and RVs don’t always mix.

[dkoldman]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Your using 120 volts from your 800 watt generator to create 13.5 volts thru your 120 volt converter.

First, is 800 watts the sustainable wattage, or the surge watts, of your generstor ?

Second, is your converter rated at 65 amps at charging voltage, and does it have a 100% conversion rate from 120 to 13.5 volts ( no loss ) ?

Third, unless you switch everything 120 volts off, except the converter, some of that 800 watts @ 120 volts is going to be powering other stuff.
Then with everything switched off, any 12 volt items running on battery are going to reduce your charging rate.

My prediction is that you will need a bigger generator for 65 amps of charging or smaller standalone charger that doesn't overload the generator you have.

It took 1/2 of a beer and several reads; but I got it... really good stuff

Reminds me when I was trying to grasp the concept of why a 1000watt inverter connected to two 12vdc batteries that had a converter plugged into it could not perpetually re-charge the batteries that feed the 1000w inverter. I thought I had figured out the world's energy problem and was on my way to becoming a billionaire

[happyseany]

Originally Posted by Bobthegod

So I was thinking if and when my onboard 4000 watt Onan dies (if it does) to replace it costs roughly $3500. If I went with a Onan 5000 watt they are roughly $4500. So the point I want to make is if I remove the Onan and install a Honda 5000 watt is $2500 and the Honda 7000 watt is $5400 you basically can get more watts and all the other extras for less money overall..... you get the Eco throttle, blue tooth remote start and stop, co-minder and all accessible from an app on your phone, which includes reminders for scheduled maintenance. I'm thinking I'll switch to one of these as one of the best features is the eco throttle that only runs the motor fast enough for what appliance your using. And if I'm just getting a charge to the batteries it'll sit there and just idle. I'm sure my generator compartment can easily be retrofitted to accept the Honda easily. Right now I have my onboard Onan 4000, and, a backup Honda 2200 with bluetooth and cominder. I use the Honda when I just want to charge batteries as like I said it just idles and if wayyyyyy quieter then the Onan which runs at full throttle no matter if you want 200 watts or 3000 watts.

What say you folks?

I have the Onan 8K Diesel..and I put (2) Honda EU2000i's on a custom slide-out tray where my Propane Tank was (mounted a 20lb BBQ-style tank in other place). From Parallel Adapter I ran a 30A cord to my Shore Power cord area, had exhaust extensions welded on to connect flexible exhaust system, and welded a loop to lock gennys up..Works great! Put on eco-throttle and use such little fuel. Never over-heats.

ADVICE! New EU2200i with Co-Minder DOES NOT work in this application! Sensor is way too sensitive and unit shuts down. Mounted new CO Detector right above compartment..reads zero

[lola and i]

Originally Posted by dkoldman

Can I play this out?

Let's assume per your statement "you dry camp a lot and don't need your air conditioning,"
and you are willing to spend $500

You could buy a AGS if you didn't already have one and set it for AUTO and you could truly boondock all day with no generator and then for 1 hour or at most 2 hours every night; the AGS would kick on and fully recharge the batteries and shut itself off. You can even control the time it does all of this.

I have 5500 Micro Quiet and I bet good money that my Onan onboard Genset is just as quiet at my 3500 portable power inverter outside. Neither are quiet enough to run at night with neighbors nearby. Gas cost is negligible, as I run it an hour or so just exercising it with regularity. But to me the biggest thing is it is one less thing to worry about and maintain. I am not sure where I would put my portable 3500 KW power inverter if I were to try to carry on a trip I sure would not want to carry a gas can. And if I need to move or take my RV out, nothing for me to go get to lock up, or worry about being stolen.

Maybe if you guys were talking about bringing portable generators to avoid using those extremely loud Onan Propane models you see in those Mercedes Sprinters Chassis, you might have the motivation; but again where would you stow all of that stuff.

I like the way you are playing it out, it makes dollars and cents. I am planning to take that advice to add an AGS, also a soft start for the roof AC units and a NOCO Genius GENPRO10X3, 3-Bank, 30-Amp (10-Amp Per Bank) Fully-Automatic Smart Marine Charger, 12V Onboard Battery Charger, Battery Maintainer and Battery Desulfator with Temperature Compensation. The Noco will be a huge upgrade over the existing charger, the soft start will allow me to run both AC units on the generator or 30 amps shore power and the AGS to make it happen with minimal intervention.

[Nwcid]

Originally Posted by lola and i

I like the way you are playing it out, it makes dollars and cents. I am planning to take that advice to add an AGS, also a soft start for the roof AC units and a NOCO Genius GENPRO10X3, 3-Bank, 30-Amp (10-Amp Per Bank) Fully-Automatic Smart Marine Charger, 12V Onboard Battery Charger, Battery Maintainer and Battery Desulfator with Temperature Compensation. The Noco will be a huge upgrade over the existing charger, the soft start will allow me to run both AC units on the generator or 30 amps shore power and the AGS to make it happen with minimal intervention.

If you want an AGS there is no reason not to get one. I debated about it when I built our system. I decided against adding AGS and mine would have been a simple plug and play. For us I just manually run it, when needed, for an hour or so in the morning while making breakfast and hour or so at night while making dinner.

While your smart charger seems cool and makes lots of sense as a maintainer I am not sure how it is better in an off grid application. 10 amps (even per battery) is not very much charging depending on how big of a battery bank you have. Even if you 3 of the 12v RV/marine batteries that are around 100AH each and you use 30% of it that means you have 30 AH to refill/battery. At 10 amps that take 3hr/battery to charge.

I am not sure what built in converter your RV has but many are now at least 45 amps if not 60 amps. I do have an inverter/charger in mine and it has a 125 amp "smart" charger in it. The charger your reference sounds great on shore power but might not work as well for your intended application.

[lola and i]

Originally Posted by Nwcid

If you want an AGS there is no reason not to get one. I debated about it when I built our system. I decided against adding AGS and mine would have been a simple plug and play. For us I just manually run it, when needed, for an hour or so in the morning while making breakfast and hour or so at night while making dinner.

While your smart charger seems cool and makes lots of sense as a maintainer I am not sure how it is better in an off grid application. 10 amps (even per battery) is not very much charging depending on how big of a battery bank you have. Even if you 3 of the 12v RV/marine batteries that are around 100AH each and you use 30% of it that means you have 30 AH to refill/battery. At 10 amps that take 3hr/battery to charge.

I am not sure what built in converter your RV has but many are now at least 45 amps if not 60 amps. I do have an inverter/charger in mine and it has a 125 amp "smart" charger in it. The charger your reference sounds great on shore power but might not work as well for your intended application.

My converter says it is 45 amp but only 3 amps for charging