Community Forums

clyon51 · 04-03-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyon51

As far as RV use, there is not a gas RV out there with a high compression engine, or that needs anything over 87 octane. Putting anything higher or boosting it is a waste of money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murf2u

IMHO that statement isn't completely correct, but not from an Octane point of view.

In most places Premium fuel has no Ethanol in it. By fueling up with Ethanol-free fuel you eliminate some risks to the engine and boost performance back up to pre-ethanol levels.

In 'real world' numbers this can translate into as much as a 20% boost.

I think you better explain this a little better so we don't have folks running out with their post-ethanol engines filling up with premium @ 30 cents more per gal looking for some benefit to override the cost of it.

Midniteoyl · 04-03-2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murf2u

IMHO that statement isn't completely correct, but not from an Octane point of view.

In most places Premium fuel has no Ethanol in it. By fueling up with Ethanol-free fuel you eliminate some risks to the engine and boost performance back up to pre-ethanol levels.

In 'real world' numbers this can translate into as much as a 20% boost.

Um.. alcohol (ethanol) is the main way to increase the octane rating of fuel...

Murf2u · 04-05-2012, 10:09 AM

There is a world of difference between 'octane' and 'energy content' in fuel, one is not necessarily related to the other.

Straight Ethanol contains about 76,100BTU's per gallon, versus "regular" gasoline which contains about 114,500. That is the measure of potential (work) energy each contain. Ethanol then contains only 66% of the "work" that gasoline contains.

If you look at only the ethanol content, then a gallon of E10 fuel would in theory contain 7,610 BTU's of ethanol and 103,050 BTU's of Gasoline for a total of 110,660 BTU's.

That is about 96.5% of the energy in straight gasoline.

The problem though is the other issues associated with ethanol fuel, whether in a brand new engine, or a 20 year old one. The biggest is that ethanol (an alcohol) is "hygroscopic" (it really likes water). In fact E10 fuel can absorb 50 times more water by volume than straight gasoline can. If you use the example of a 55 gallon fuel tank, E10 fuel could hold as much as 0.4 gallons of water in suspension. That number could rise substantially if the ethanol content is higher than 10%.

The problem then is you are burning fuel that contains far less energy per gallon than it should.

Octane is only a rating of how volatile the fuel is, it has nothing to do with how far that fuel will take you.

clyon51 · 04-05-2012, 11:22 AM

Ok. So what are you recommending the folks here put in their gas RVs while traveling?

Murf2u · 04-06-2012, 07:07 AM

I'm not 'recommending' anything, I'm merely trying to dispel a myth and educate folks.

Is Premium gas at $4.25 / gallon more expensive than Regular (E10) at $3.90 / gallon? It looks like it's 9% more at first glance.

If the Premium gets you 15% to 30% better mileage I'd say it's a bargain.

tekrsq · 04-07-2012, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Murf2u

In most places Premium fuel has no Ethanol in it. By fueling up with Ethanol-free fuel you eliminate some risks to the engine and boost performance back up to pre-ethanol levels.

Where do you get this info ? I've heard this several times lately on several forums, but no body has been able to show me proof. Is this a nothern USA/ Canada thing? ALL fuel in my area appears to be up to E10. I'd LOVE to find E-free fuel, and wouldn't mind paying extra (within reason) for it.

goreds2 · 04-07-2012, 06:33 AM

I just started using this stuff mainly for the fuel injectors. If I get better MPG then great. I bought the little 5 oz bottle first then the 32 oz and I will probably buy this next. I put some in my GF car and she could tell the difference very quickly. Read the reviews. (Lucas treatment)

Amazon.com: Lucas 10013 Fuel Treatment - 1 Gallon: Automotive

clyon51 · 04-07-2012, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekrsq

Where do you get this info ? I've heard this several times lately on several forums, but no body has been able to show me proof. Is this a nothern USA/ Canada thing? ALL fuel in my area appears to be up to E10. I'd LOVE to find E-free fuel, and wouldn't mind paying extra (within reason) for it.

This link lists stations by State which still carry E0 gas. Some examples: CA - 6 stations, MI - 70 stations. So there are few and far between. Most are also premium and many are marinas. You can also get E0 at any airport that fuels gas planes...just make sure your wallet if fat before you arrive.

http://pure-gas.org/

The few prices I could find were in excess of $5 a gal and that was a year ago in 1 case. This site is user supported and much of the info appears old.

To me, this thread is dead and recent points are moot. For practical purposes, E0 is almost non existent. For those that can access it, the price far exceeds any benefit in a daily driver.

If anyone thinks they are going to get 15% to 30% boost in performance or MPG by using E0, especially E0 premium in their daily driver or RV, well what can I say....[moderator edit]

Mike Canter · 04-07-2012, 08:16 AM

If a gasoline motor is designed to run on regular then by just adding premium will NOT increase MPG. This is a known fact and it goes for using octane boosters mixed with regular gas also. Now if you have the ability to advance the ignition timing because you have added premium and take advantage of the increased octane then you may get a increase in MPG. The problem here is that you cannot advance the ignition timing on most new motors because it is totally computer controlled so you would have to change the software in the ECU. Not all ECUs allow you to do that.

Pairajays · 04-07-2012, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Canter

If a gasoline motor is designed to run on regular then by just adding premium will NOT increase MPG. This is a known fact and it goes for using octane boosters mixed with regular gas also. Now if you have the ability to advance the ignition timing because you have added premium and take advantage of the increased octane then you may get a increase in MPG. The problem here is that you cannot advance the ignition timing on most new motors because it is totally computer controlled so you would have to change the software in the ECU. Not all ECUs allow you to do that.

The issue with me is it cost effective to use premium with no ethanol verses regular with 10% ethanol.

Jim E

Midniteoyl · 04-07-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pairajays

The issue with me is it cost effective to use premium with no ethanol verses regular with 10% ethanol.

Jim E

IF you can adjust for the increased octane, yes...

cylon, here in Indiana, where you would think all gas would be E10, we still have E0. Next time you are going though on US30, head south for 5-10 miles to fill up instead of staying on US30... For years now I have simply left my gas tanks full in the fall/winter when putting up equipment. They start first time out in spring. Gotta love no Alcohol in the fuel

clyon51 · 04-07-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Midniteoyl

IF you can adjust for the increased octane, yes...

That would easy, remove engine, heads, crank, rods and pistons. Buy new pistons, cam, modify ECM or buy new one, and other assorted goodies, depending on your engine.

Quote:

cylon, here in Indiana, where you would think all gas would be E10, we still have E0.

Thanks for the invite. I see Indiana still has 31 stations statewide that offer E0. I live in Michigan and we have 70. Na na, na na na

Just out curiousity, what is the octane of your E0 and what is the price of it and the price of equal octane E10 in the same area?

Midniteoyl · 04-07-2012, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyon51

That would easy, remove engine, heads, crank, rods and pistons. Buy new pistons, cam, modify ECM or buy new one, and other assorted goodies, depending on your engine.

Thanks for the invite. I see Indiana still has 31 stations statewide that offer E0. I live in Michigan and we have 70. Na na, na na na

Just out curiousity, what is the octane of your E0 and what is the price of it and the price of equal octane E10 in the same area?

Acually, I noticed that some places, like say, Knox, have only one station listed even though all three in town have E0.. So cant go by that.

letsee.. 87/89/93.. $3.98/4.08/4.18

edit: Just came back from town.. Its 91, not 93.. The 93 is in another town over that has E10 ..

Murf2u · 04-09-2012, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tekrsq

Where do you get this info ? I've heard this several times lately on several forums, but no body has been able to show me proof. Is this a nothern USA/ Canada thing? ALL fuel in my area appears to be up to E10. I'd LOVE to find E-free fuel, and wouldn't mind paying extra (within reason) for it.

You can find it at the various companys websites, but sites like this are much easier to use, some like this one even have a mobile app for those on the go.

Ethanol-free gas stations in the U.S. and Canada