Community Forums

powercat_ras · 09-27-2021, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vibeman

I agree with your thinking on the heat creation, and yes, I plan on checking the temp after a long powered drive. Since our last tow we have only driven it on short trips, less than 30 miles, and the trans gets a little warm but does not reach 120 degrees.

I sounds like you are saying there are two electric motors inside the transaxle, is that correct? I have searched online for a schematic of the HF45 transaxle showing the electric motor(s) and could not find one. I also visited my Ford dealer and the service writer and the parts person both searched their documentation and could not find one either. I was surprised at that. Does anyone have a diagram or schematic, or photos for that matter, of the internal electric motor(s)? Especially how and where they are connected into the drive train.
Being a mechanical guy I am curious about how the CVT actually works too. I'm not talking speculation here, I can guess how it might work. I mean does anyone know what the actual Ford design is and how it achieves such smooth operation?

This goes thru the first 3 versions of the Ford Escape eCVT transmission, 3rd was the Ford HF35, we have the HF45. I have not been able to find anything online that says what is different HF45 vs HF35. The smaller motor functions as the engine starter and also can used to generate power to charge the Lithium battery under the back seat. The bigger motor is the traction motor that provides power at lower speed and can contribute power at any speed when need it.

Youtube video on Ford eCVT transmissions

powercat_ras · 09-27-2021, 05:28 PM

Another Professor John Kelly video on the Ford Hybrid system, also not sure what if anything changed in the current generation we have ...

Youtube video on the electrical operation of the Ford Hybrid system

One thing = in this video he says the transmission oil pump is driven from a gear that is tied to the transmission input shaft, so now I'm not sure my statement that the lube pump operates when the ouput shaft is rotating is true. In his mechanical video it looked like Ford moved the location of the drive gear for the oil pump from the input shaft side of the planet gear set starting in generation 2, so that the lube pump gear rotated even when the engine input shaft of the transmission was not rotating.

KenTep · 09-27-2021, 06:54 PM

We just finished a 120 mile trip towing our 2021 Ford Hybrid AWD, primarily on the highway at speeds between 60 and 70. The transaxle temperature ranged from 100 F to 115 F. At this point, I guess I'll stop measuring after towing, but I will measure and report back next time I drive on the highway.

FYI: The Ford manual states:

You can tow your vehicle with all four wheels on the ground under the following conditions:

You switch Neutral Tow on.
Your vehicle is facing forward for towing in a forward direction.
You release the parking brake.
You do not exceed 70 mph (113 km/h).

There are additional instructions for switching to Neutral Tow, and the following note:

Start the engine and allow it to run for a few minutes at the beginning of each day, and every six hours or fewer. With the engine running and your foot on the brake, shift into drive (D) and then into reverse (R) before shifting back into neutral (N). Before continuing to tow, switch neutral tow on.

I also want put in a plug for Majors RV Service in Bourne, MA. They set up the Escape for flat towing and did a great job, including training us on how to use all of the components, since we never towed before.

powercat_ras · 09-27-2021, 07:49 PM

> start the engine and allow it to run ... beginning of each day ... every 6 hours or fewer ...

I agree the service manual says this. However, when I press the start/run button with my foot on brake, the engine does not run, even when you shift into D or R right away, when stationary or moving slowly. Generally mine will let me move forward or backwards a good distance without starting the engine, just moving it off the battery. So I'm not sure how exactly one would force the engine to start if that is what Ford wants us to do, other than unhooking and driving it around the block or something like that.

I have recently exceeded the guidelines where I stopped overnight, leaving the toad connected, and forgot to do the beginning of day procedure on three consecutive mornings while driving straight thru from Oregon to Kansas, with no ill effects. I also forgot to do the six hour procedure in the early afternoon the three afternoons of that straight thru trip.

Not recommending this but it's just a FYI, that nothing catastrophic happened. I am going to add something to my RV check list so I don't forget this again in the future.

Vibeman · 09-28-2021, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

> start the engine and allow it to run ... beginning of each day ... every 6 hours or fewer ...

I agree the service manual says this. However, when I press the start/run button with my foot on brake, the engine does not run, even when you shift into D or R right away, when stationary or moving slowly. Generally mine will let me move forward or backwards a good distance without starting the engine, just moving it off the battery. So I'm not sure how exactly one would force the engine to start if that is what Ford wants us to do, other than unhooking and driving it around the block or something like that.

I have recently exceeded the guidelines where I stopped overnight, leaving the toad connected, and forgot to do the beginning of day procedure on three consecutive mornings while driving straight thru from Oregon to Kansas, with no ill effects. I also forgot to do the six hour procedure in the early afternoon the three afternoons of that straight thru trip.

Not recommending this but it's just a FYI, that nothing catastrophic happened. I am going to add something to my RV check list so I don't forget this again in the future.

With system in "ready to drive" mode and shifter in park, just depress the accelerator pedal at least half way and the engine will start.

Vibeman · 09-28-2021, 04:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

This goes thru the first 3 versions of the Ford Escape eCVT transmission, 3rd was the Ford HF35, we have the HF45. I have not been able to find anything online that says what is different HF45 vs HF35. The smaller motor functions as the engine starter and also can used to generate power to charge the Lithium battery under the back seat. The bigger motor is the traction motor that provides power at lower speed and can contribute power at any speed when need it.

Youtube video on Ford eCVT transmissions

Thank you Randy! These are great videos and just what I was looking for. The narrator is obviously very familiar with the system and does an excellent job of explaining it.
-Ken

amosnandy · 09-28-2021, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powercat_ras

> start the engine and allow it to run ... beginning of each day ... every 6 hours or fewer ...

I agree the service manual says this. However, when I press the start/run button with my foot on brake, the engine does not run, even when you shift into D or R right away, when stationary or moving slowly. Generally mine will let me move forward or backwards a good distance without starting the engine, just moving it off the battery. So I'm not sure how exactly one would force the engine to start if that is what Ford wants us to do, other than unhooking and driving it around the block or something like that.

I have recently exceeded the guidelines where I stopped overnight, leaving the toad connected, and forgot to do the beginning of day procedure on three consecutive mornings while driving straight thru from Oregon to Kansas, with no ill effects. I also forgot to do the six hour procedure in the early afternoon the three afternoons of that straight thru trip.

Not recommending this but it's just a FYI, that nothing catastrophic happened. I am going to add something to my RV check list so I don't forget this again in the future.

The engine should be running when you do the shift to D and R before putting the vehicle back into neutral tow mode. The way your get the engine to start and run is put it in Park, foot on brake, push start stop button, das will say "ready to drive." turn heater or ac on high. This will deplete the Hybrid battery enough the engine starts. While running, shift to d, then to r then back to p. I always let it run until the engine shuts of and the Hybrid battery is charged. About 2-3 minutes. Then Reset your Neutral Tow Mode

Donskiman · 10-02-2021, 10:02 PM

We just finished our first trip towing our 2020 Ford Escape Hybrid SE Sport AWD. We are using the RVi brake 3 system along with a charge line. It all worked just fine. On overnight stops I run the engine when we get to our destination and run it again the next morning before we leave. Putting it in neutral tow mode is simple. We never go faster than 65 while towing. Our longest day was about 4 hours.

We added a Roadmaster Tow Defender to keep road debris from hitting the front of the car.

KenTep · 10-19-2021, 12:02 AM

I finally had a chance to measure the transaxle temperature after driving (not towing) our 2021 Ford Escape Hybrid AWD. The maximum transaxle temperature was 140 F near the bottom of the case after driving 200 miles at speeds of 65 to 75 MPH.

Vibeman · 10-20-2021, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KenTep

I finally had a chance to measure the transaxle temperature after driving (not towing) our 2021 Ford Escape Hybrid AWD. The maximum transaxle temperature was 140 F near the bottom of the case after driving 200 miles at speeds of 65 to 75 MPH.

Thanks Ken, I have still not taken a long drive in mine, but I will check the temp when I do too.
-Ken

mkitzy · 11-07-2021, 05:37 AM

Those of you that have had your Escape for a awhile, if you had to do it again would you purchase the Escape again. I am am very close to purchasing one, i have been a Honda owner for ever, switching to Ford is a big deal. If someone has a link to the procedure to put the car in neutral for towing, i would appreciate it.

Vibeman · 11-08-2021, 03:53 AM

I have no regrets about purchasing my 2021 Escape. I am a Ford retiree, however, so I am biased. If not for the towing aspect I probably would not have purchased an Escape at all, especially not a hybrid, but now that I have had it almost 6 months I feel it is a great second car (I also have an Explorer) My wife now loves it too, after getting used to all the electronic whiz bang stuff. The only thing I really don't like is the shifter knob, I still prefer a lever, but I guess they call that progress.

KenTep · 11-08-2021, 07:02 AM

I have no regrets purchasing the Escape for use as a toad. It's very easy to put into neutral tow, light enough to be unnoticeable when towed, and barely effects mph. The only limitations on towing (from the owners manual) are to not exceed 70 mph and to run the engine for a few minutes every six hours, neither of which are a problem for us:

You do not exceed 70 mph (113 km/h)
Start the engine and allow it to run for a few minutes at the beginning of each day, and every six hours or fewer.

The Escape is comfortable, easy to drive, has a surprising amount of storage area, and the hybrid delivers 40+ mpg.

With all that said, I would not have bought the Escape as a personal car. I would have bought a sedan, probably a Lexus ES or similar.

If you haven't already, check out this thread with a discussion on the Escape:

https://www.irv2.com/forums/showthre...errerid=314098

You can download the manual from here:

https://www.ford.com/support/vehicle...owner-manuals/

The neutral tow setup is on page 321.

Here is the checklist we use to setup for towing (we have the Blue Ox Baseplate BX2683 and Demco Commander tow bar):

Drive the Car to the Rear of the RV
Prepare the Transmission
- Let the engine run for two minutes (press gas pedal if the engine is not running)
- Foot on brake
- Transmission to Drive
- Transmission to Reverse
- Transmission to Neutral
- Transmission to Park
- Parking brake on
- Ignition off
Connect Tow Hitch
- Insert Baseplate Studs
- Unlock the hitch arms
- Connect two hitches
- Connect two safety cables
- Connect electric cord
- Connect breakaway cable
Back up car until lock clicks
- If only one clicks turn car toward lock that did not
Switch to Neutral Tow
- Ignition off
- Foot OFF brake
- Push start button
- Press Menu button
- Select Settings
- Select Neutral Tow
- Press and hold the OK button
- Press the brake pedal
- Transmission to Neutral
- Climate control to Recirculate
- Windows closed
- Parking brake off
- Foot OFF brake
- Ignition off
Remove EZPass
Install RVi Brake with Back Board

Vibeman · 11-17-2021, 04:43 AM

A few posts up, back in October, I said I would check my transaxle heat after a long powered drive. Well, I finally took a 70 mile trip on the freeway and when I got to my destination I checked the transaxle heat. It was only 114 degrees. Probably due to the 40 degree ambient temps here now. This doesn't really prove anything but I just wanted to follow up on my promise. I will probably check it again sometime when driving in warmer weather.