4 Runner or Sequoia as toad

[ASU777]

Originally Posted by tqqest

I took IllRob's advice and tried it, and have towed over 4,000 miles so far with absolutely no issues.

I haven't purchased one yet but it makes the TRD models seem like a much better deal. Thanks.

[Snowbird69]

Originally Posted by lllkrob

Any 4x4 Toyota / Lexus product can be flat towed as long as it has a manual shift transfer case, the type of transmission makes no difference. IT MUST HAVE A MANUAL SHIFT TRANSFER CASE. There are current 4 Runner TRD Off Road models with a manual transfer case and automatic transmission that can be towed 4 down as is. I do not believe any Sequoia models ever came with a manual shift transfer case.

I would love to buy a 4Runner Trail for a toad but am being told that the transfer case is only lubed when the engine is running, can anyone confirm that the Trail can be flat towed and give specifics on exactly why it can be flat towed despite what Toyota says? Thanks in advance.

[Busskipper]

Look over these old posts for some info ;

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/lexus...ad-321018.html

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/towin...70-366138.html

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f112/towi...-a-288128.html

I've just finished putting on the base Plate for My 2007 GX470 - looks great - have only driven it a few tanks full of gas so far but it has a ride like the DW's old LS430 - actually a little better.

So if the transfer case lets you get to Neutral you should be good to go with the right Toyota.

Best of Luck,

https://www.blueox.com/baseplates-sorting/ - look to see if you can get a baseplate, if so likely you can make it your Toad

[lllkrob]

Originally Posted by Snowbird69

I would love to buy a 4Runner Trail for a toad but am being told that the transfer case is only lubed when the engine is running, can anyone confirm that the Trail can be flat towed and give specifics on exactly why it can be flat towed despite what Toyota says? Thanks in advance.

Exactly who at Toyota is telling you this? The transfer case is splash lubricated by the rotating output shaft gears which are disconnected from the input shaft gears when the transfer is in neutral. The engine running has absolutely nothing to do with lubrication of a manual shift transfer case. The manual shift transfer case being used today by Toyota is the same design as has been used for decades.

[Snowbird69]

Originally Posted by lllkrob

Exactly who at Toyota is telling you this? The transfer case is splash lubricated by the rotating output shaft gears which are disconnected from the input shaft gears when the transfer is in neutral. The engine running has absolutely nothing to do with lubrication of a manual shift transfer case. The manual shift transfer case being used today by Toyota is the same design as has been used for decades.

It was told to me by an ex Toyota Service manager but it sounded like he really didn't know the exact reason or any specifics of it.

You have given me more specifics than anyone so far, thanks!

So just to clarify, the Tcase is being splash lubricated by the rotating output shaft gears anytime the driveshaft/rear wheels turn, and the transmission and input side of the Tcase don't require lubrication when the Tcase is in neutral as neither are turning? Is it that simple, and if so, why does Toyota have such an issue with flat towing with this type of Tcase? Thanks again.

[Hayduke]

Originally Posted by lllkrob

Exactly who at Toyota is telling you this? The transfer case is splash lubricated by the rotating output shaft gears which are disconnected from the input shaft gears when the transfer is in neutral. The engine running has absolutely nothing to do with lubrication of a manual shift transfer case. The manual shift transfer case being used today by Toyota is the same design as has been used for decades.

Originally Posted by Snowbird69

It was told to me by an ex Toyota Service manager but it sounded like he really didn't know the exact reason or any specifics of it.

You have given me more specifics than anyone so far, thanks!

So just to clarify, the Tcase is being splash lubricated by the rotating output shaft gears anytime the driveshaft/rear wheels turn, and the transmission and input side of the Tcase don't require lubrication when the Tcase is in neutral as neither are turning? Is it that simple, and if so, why does Toyota have such an issue with flat towing with this type of Tcase? Thanks again.

So what I'm hearing is my '98 4runner, with automatic transmission and manual 4x4 transfer case, can be flat towed without modification?

If the transfer case is indeed lubricated by the output shaft, then it should be fine. What about the transmission itself? I assume that is in neutral as well? Is it getting lubrication if the input shafts are not spinning?

[lllkrob]

Originally Posted by Hayduke

So what I'm hearing is my '98 4runner, with automatic transmission and manual 4x4 transfer case, can be flat towed without modification?

If the transfer case is indeed lubricated by the output shaft, then it should be fine. What about the transmission itself? I assume that is in neutral as well? Is it getting lubrication if the input shafts are not spinning?

The automatic transmission is put into park, the transfer case is shifted to neutral, the engine is turned off/acc as required. You are ready to tow. Once the transfer case is in neutral the transmission is disconnected from the driveline and does not operate at all.

[lllkrob]

Originally Posted by Snowbird69

It was told to me by an ex Toyota Service manager but it sounded like he really didn't know the exact reason or any specifics of it.

You have given me more specifics than anyone so far, thanks!

So just to clarify, the Tcase is being splash lubricated by the rotating output shaft gears anytime the driveshaft/rear wheels turn, and the transmission and input side of the Tcase don't require lubrication when the Tcase is in neutral as neither are turning? Is it that simple, and if so, why does Toyota have such an issue with flat towing with this type of Tcase? Thanks again.

Toyota does not condone flat towing ANY of it's products for legal reasons. They don't want to get into warranty issues over what is covered and what is not. Since the toad market is so very very small they just don't care to be involved. I know, I worked for Toyota Motor Manufacturing for 28 years.

[Busskipper]

Originally Posted by lllkrob

The automatic transmission is put into park, the transfer case is shifted to neutral, the engine is turned off/acc as required. You are ready to tow. Once the transfer case is in neutral the transmission is disconnected from the driveline and does not operate at all.

Left one important step out - leave the key in to prevent the steering wheel lock from engaging - most only leave a single key into to prevent it from being pulled out while bouncing down the road and locking.

[Hayduke]

lllkrob,

So I CAN tow my 98 4runner flat without modification?
I get conflicting info the more I read.
I believe I have a manual transfer case, but how I know for sure?
I use a little shift lever, to the left of the automatic transmission shift lever, to engage 4WD Hi and Low. The Neutral is in between 4WD Hi and Low.

So what exactly is the procedure to flat tow this vehicle?
This is what I'm understanding...
Turn key on, but not engine.
Shift transmission into N.
Shift transfer case into N.
Shift transmission back to P.
Drive.

Is that correct?

I tried to put the transfer case in N and then shift bakc into P once, and you could hear the palls click when I tried. I had the engine running though. Perhaps that was my mistake?

I will be very happy if I can tow my 4runner without a driveshaft disconnect.

[lllkrob]

Originally Posted by Hayduke

lllkrob,

So I CAN tow my 98 4runner flat without modification?
I get conflicting info the more I read.
I believe I have a manual transfer case, but how I know for sure?
I use a little shift lever, to the left of the automatic transmission shift lever, to engage 4WD Hi and Low. The Neutral is in between 4WD Hi and Low.

So what exactly is the procedure to flat tow this vehicle?
This is what I'm understanding...
Turn key on, but not engine.
Shift transmission into N.
Shift transfer case into N.
Shift transmission back to P.
Drive.

Is that correct?

I tried to put the transfer case in N and then shift bakc into P once, and you could hear the palls click when I tried. I had the engine running though. Perhaps that was my mistake?

I will be very happy if I can tow my 4runner without a driveshaft disconnect.

Here is the procedure to use:


Pull the vehicle up to the motorhome
Put the transmission into PARK
Put the transfer case into NEUTRAL
Set the parking brake, the vehicle will roll very easily if not set.
Turn the key to OFF/ACC whatever is needed to keep the steering lock disengaged.
Hook the vehicle up to the motorhome
Set the auxilliary tow brake system
Hook up the tow lights.
Release the parking brake.
Your ready to tow.

[Hayduke]

Originally Posted by lllkrob

Here is the procedure to use:


Pull the vehicle up to the motorhome
Put the transmission into PARK
Put the transfer case into NEUTRAL
Set the parking brake, the vehicle will roll very easily if not set.
Turn the key to OFF/ACC whatever is needed to keep the steering lock disengaged.
Hook the vehicle up to the motorhome
Set the auxilliary tow brake system
Hook up the tow lights.
Release the parking brake.
Your ready to tow.

That's good to know.
Thanks.

We were having a tough time deciding what to tow.

Using the 4runner we already have is appealing.

[tqqest]

Originally Posted by Snowbird69

I would love to buy a 4Runner Trail for a toad but am being told that the transfer case is only lubed when the engine is running, can anyone confirm that the Trail can be flat towed and give specifics on exactly why it can be flat towed despite what Toyota says? Thanks in advance.

Hey all,

I just went thru all of this a year ago before I bought my 2019 4Runner Off Road. After a lot of research on here, advice from lllkrob, the GX470 guys, and others, a video of the Toyota transfer case tear down, and looking at several exploded transfer case parts diagrams, I decided I could safely tow my 4Runner. After a year, and about 3,000 miles so far, all is great with no problems! Remember, as lllkrob stated, you can ONLY do this if the transfer case has the manual shift lever.

Now, the Toyota manual shift transfer case does indeed have an oil pump that is driven from the input shaft only. This pump, pumps oil thru the input shaft gear group, and the bearing between the input and rear output shafts. However, as lllkrob has said, when the transfer case is in neutral, the input shaft gear group is not turning at all, so it doesn't need any oil. The bearing where the front input and rear output shafts meet, is still turning because the front shaft is stationary, but the rear output shaft is being turned by the rear wheels via the driveshaft. But in looking at it closely, there is NO pressure on this bearing at all because it is all freewheeling with no torsional load. Plus it appears that this brearing is still getting some splash lubrication, along with the front and rear output shafts, from the gears and chain spinning in the oil bath at the lower part of the case.

So my take, after research, repeatedly checking the case temps while towing with an infrared temp sensor, and several thousand miles of experience, is no problems, and it works great! As a plus, I did check with my Toyota service writer last week. Although Toyota does not allow towing of any of their vehicles, he said that he knows of quite a few being towed, and has never heard of a transfer case failure.

As far as my hookup procedure, it is different from many. Mine is as follows:

1. Drive up to my motorhome and connect the tow bar
2. Back up to fully extended the arms and lock them in place
3. Put the transmission in park and turn the key fully off, but do not remove it so the steering wheel stays unlocked
4. Shift the transfer case into neutral
5. Make sure the emergency brake is off, hookup my aux brake system and my towing lights

I do mine this way because I found out that on the Toyota transfer cases, if the engine is running, or the key is in the accessory position when you go thru 4Hi on the way to neutral, the system engages the front axle disconnect. When you are in 2 wheel drive, Toyota uses the front axle disconnect (called the A.D.D. by Toyota) to disconnect the passenger side front axle shaft from the front differential. This reduces front end wear and saves fuel by reducing drag. The downside is that when the A.D.D. is connected, even though the t-case is in neutral, you are still in 4 wheel drive lock, and both front wheels are trying to turn with the rear tires. This will cause binding and bucking when you are towing your 4Runner and make a sharp turn. It is the exact same as if you try to drive in 4 wheel drive on dry pavement. It won't break anything, but it is really hard on all the components. In a full lock turn of my motorhome when towing, I could see the 4Runner bucking behind me.

Further research showed that because the A.D.D. is electrically activated, it does not engage with the key in the off position. That is why I always turn the key fully off before shifting the transfer case. It is extremely rare for me to have any problem getting the transfer case into neutral with the engine stopped and the trans in park. If for some reason I do have trouble, I just start the engine, run the tranny thru forward and reverse, back to park, and shut it off again. Then put the t-case into neutral.

When I get to my location, I disconnect my aux brake system. I can then usually just shift the transfer case back into 2 wheel drive without even starting the engine, set the emergency brake, and disconnect.

Sorry for the long post but hopefully this answers your questions. If you have any others please feel free to PM me.

Regards!

[Snowbird69]

Originally Posted by tqqest

Hey all,

I just went thru all of this a year ago before I bought my 2019 4Runner Off Road. After a lot of research on here, advice from lllkrob, the GX470 guys, and others, a video of the Toyota transfer case tear down, and looking at several exploded transfer case parts diagrams, I decided I could safely tow my 4Runner. After a year, and about 3,000 miles so far, all is great with no problems! Remember, as lllkrob stated, you can ONLY do this if the transfer case has the manual shift lever.

Now, the Toyota manual shift transfer case does indeed have an oil pump that is driven from the input shaft only. This pump, pumps oil thru the input shaft gear group, and the bearing between the input and rear output shafts. However, as lllkrob has said, when the transfer case is in neutral, the input shaft gear group is not turning at all, so it doesn't need any oil. The bearing where the front input and rear output shafts meet, is still turning because the front shaft is stationary, but the rear output shaft is being turned by the rear wheels via the driveshaft. But in looking at it closely, there is NO pressure on this bearing at all because it is all freewheeling with no torsional load. Plus it appears that this brearing is still getting some splash lubrication, along with the front and rear output shafts, from the gears and chain spinning in the oil bath at the lower part of the case.

So my take, after research, repeatedly checking the case temps while towing with an infrared temp sensor, and several thousand miles of experience, is no problems, and it works great! As a plus, I did check with my Toyota service writer last week. Although Toyota does not allow towing of any of their vehicles, he said that he knows of quite a few being towed, and has never heard of a transfer case failure.

As far as my hookup procedure, it is different from many. Mine is as follows:

1. Drive up to my motorhome and connect the tow bar
2. Back up to fully extended the arms and lock them in place
3. Put the transmission in park and turn the key fully off, but do not remove it so the steering wheel stays unlocked
4. Shift the transfer case into neutral
5. Make sure the emergency brake is off, hookup my aux brake system and my towing lights

I do mine this way because I found out that on the Toyota transfer cases, if the engine is running, or the key is in the accessory position when you go thru 4Hi on the way to neutral, the system engages the front axle disconnect. When you are in 2 wheel drive, Toyota uses the front axle disconnect (called the A.D.D. by Toyota) to disconnect the passenger side front axle shaft from the front differential. This reduces front end wear and saves fuel by reducing drag. The downside is that when the A.D.D. is connected, even though the t-case is in neutral, you are still in 4 wheel drive lock, and both front wheels are trying to turn with the rear tires. This will cause binding and bucking when you are towing your 4Runner and make a sharp turn. It is the exact same as if you try to drive in 4 wheel drive on dry pavement. It won't break anything, but it is really hard on all the components. In a full lock turn of my motorhome when towing, I could see the 4Runner bucking behind me.

Further research showed that because the A.D.D. is electrically activated, it does not engage with the key in the off position. That is why I always turn the key fully off before shifting the transfer case. It is extremely rare for me to have any problem getting the transfer case into neutral with the engine stopped and the trans in park. If for some reason I do have trouble, I just start the engine, run the tranny thru forward and reverse, back to park, and shut it off again. Then put the t-case into neutral.

When I get to my location, I disconnect my aux brake system. I can then usually just shift the transfer case back into 2 wheel drive without even starting the engine, set the emergency brake, and disconnect.

Sorry for the long post but hopefully this answers your questions. If you have any others please feel free to PM me.

Regards!

Excellent info. Thanks for posting. I've also never heard about the ADD issue before and is good to know. But even if the ADD has engaged the passenger axle, both front wheels would be free to turn independent of each just as they are when driving down the road in 4wd because the front diff is considered "open"? Also, with the transfer case in Neutral, the front and back axles are not connected so there is no way they should be binding on corners or anytime?