Acceptable angle for tow bar

[Unplanned Tourist]

ReadyBrake is a great braking system. It is best to have the tow bar level due to the fact it operates the brakes, and telescopes in and out as it applies and releases the brakes. Off level will put more wear on the sliding parts. So if it was me, I would get it level as possible.

[Alan_Hepburn]

Originally Posted by Winger2

Understandable but my 4369 is not diving down.

Unless your suspension system does not include springs of some kind then there definitely IS some amount of weight transfer when you apply the brakes. Suspensions can prevent excessive movement, but it is there.

[Winger2]

Originally Posted by Alan_Hepburn

Unless your suspension system does not include springs of some kind then there definitely IS some amount of weight transfer when you apply the brakes. Suspensions can prevent excessive movement, but it is there.

I defer to Demco, I have towed 20,000 miles across different vehicles, only time I had a problem was when I used a riser or a drop to level off.
I am not sure of others qualifications, but I will listen to Demco until someone shows me that they have an engineering degree and have discussed this question with at least 1/2 dozen other engineers. Then provide a demonstration proving they are right.
In a previous post I quoted Demco.

[Fushux]

I think trying to get to level is causing some of my problems. It’s creating a chucking issue when taking curves. I’m going to take the hitch adapter off, which will create a 4 inch difference with the toad being higher. Test to see if it stops the problem. I’m ok with running a 4 inch difference.

[AKIQPilot]

Originally Posted by Winger2

I defer to Demco, I have towed 20,000 miles across different vehicles, only time I had a problem was when I used a riser or a drop to level off.
I am not sure of others qualifications, but I will listen to Demco until someone shows me that they have an engineering degree and have discussed this question with at least 1/2 dozen other engineers. Then provide a demonstration proving they are right.
In a previous post I quoted Demco.

Are you saying that Demco allows tow bar angles up to 5"? I'm not sure exactly which tow bar you have but it seems like Demco recommends the tow bar to be parallel to the road surface with a maximum difference of 3".


See page 8.

https://cdn.demco-products.com/documents/TB20060.pdf

[Winger2]

Originally Posted by AKIQPilot

Are you saying that Demco allows tow bar angles up to 5"? I'm not sure exactly which tow bar you have but it seems like Demco recommends the tow bar to be parallel to the road surface with a maximum difference of 3".


See page 8.

https://cdn.demco-products.com/documents/TB20060.pdf

You need to read all my posts. I quoted Demco in one. That Demco post I quoted was in the sticky at the top of the toads page.
I have explained this numerous times, one more and done. Read what I quoted, below. Then I am finished with this thread.
I actually believe the manufacturers say 2 to 3" because many folks either do NOT use a braking system or you an inferior product to save a few bucks.
Read post 14

http://https://www.irv2.com/forums/f...nce-16631.html



And I quote....

"Here is another line of thought to tune up your brain.

The tow bar angle, in my mind, is less of an issue with a proper tow brake. By that I mean a good system with no built is surge suppressor or technology that determines if you are going down hill or stopping. These systems must think and in a panic, you nor your brake should think, it should just do it. Reading through the posts here it seems that the concern is that the car might try to climb in to the bed or some how sneak under it. IF, and I say IF you have a proper brake, then how could it?

Proper angle does reduce sway and tows a bit better. But those drop receivers add at least two pin connections which adds slop in the tow set up. Blue OX makes an extra part to help with this on one pin but rather than that, I still believe that a proper brake will eliminate the major part of this issue. Slop in the tow set up will add to sway in the tow which can add to more wear on the front tires and cupping. I do know a customer (a customer now but she used to have a competitors product) that folded a motorcycle carrier up into the back of her coach and then onto the hood of her truck. The angle was right but the stop was so fast that her brake could not keep up. At least that is what she told me. At any rate the brake failed her and she had 1000's of dollars of damage. A proper brake would have been much less than ½ of the repair.

Food for thought.

Pete"

[AKIQPilot]

Originally Posted by Winger2

You need to read all my posts. I quoted Demco in one. That Demco post I quoted was in the sticky at the top of the toads page.
I have explained this numerous times, one more and done. Read what I quoted, below. Then I am finished with this thread.
I actually believe the manufacturers say 2 to 3" because many folks either do NOT use a braking system or you an inferior product to save a few bucks.
Read post 14

http://https://www.irv2.com/forums/f...nce-16631.html



And I quote....

"Here is another line of thought to tune up your brain.

The tow bar angle, in my mind, is less of an issue with a proper tow brake. By that I mean a good system with no built is surge suppressor or technology that determines if you are going down hill or stopping. These systems must think and in a panic, you nor your brake should think, it should just do it. Reading through the posts here it seems that the concern is that the car might try to climb in to the bed or some how sneak under it. IF, and I say IF you have a proper brake, then how could it?

Proper angle does reduce sway and tows a bit better. But those drop receivers add at least two pin connections which adds slop in the tow set up. Blue OX makes an extra part to help with this on one pin but rather than that, I still believe that a proper brake will eliminate the major part of this issue. Slop in the tow set up will add to sway in the tow which can add to more wear on the front tires and cupping. I do know a customer (a customer now but she used to have a competitors product) that folded a motorcycle carrier up into the back of her coach and then onto the hood of her truck. The angle was right but the stop was so fast that her brake could not keep up. At least that is what she told me. At any rate the brake failed her and she had 1000's of dollars of damage. A proper brake would have been much less than ½ of the repair.

Food for thought.

Pete"

Well your link doesn't work but post 14 of the sticky doesn't say that 4.5" to 5" of differential is acceptable. And post 14 is wrong about a drop hitch adding 2 addition pins. A drop hitch adds only one additional pin.

Virtually all tow bar manufacturers recommend no more than 3" of drop or rise from the tow to the toad, including Demco. You can run around with 5" if you want but I wouldn't encourage others to do the same.

[Winger2]

Originally Posted by AKIQPilot

Well your link doesn't work but post 14 of the sticky doesn't say that 4.5" to 5" of differential is acceptable. And post 14 is wrong about a drop hitch adding 2 addition pins. A drop hitch adds only one additional pin.

Virtually all tow bar manufacturers recommend no more than 3" of drop or rise from the tow to the toad, including Demco. You can run around with 5" if you want but I wouldn't encourage others to do the same.

Perfect. I live my life, drive my coach and toad with zero issues and you drive yours and live your life.
I use AF1, frankly I would never use ready brute as I think its junk. Others swear by it. I do not argue with them telling them they are wrong when they have zero issues.
If you think 2 to 3 pins make no difference...thats on those that do. I had major issues when adding a drop, with receiver clamps on both. 25 years of pulling a toad with no issues except for when adding the drop.

Tell me what is the issue with a proper braking system? I can see the problem if using an inferior product, but not with AF1

Enjoy life, I do

[Retired2016]

Originally Posted by TandW

A recent thread concerning a raised jeep pulled by a raised hitch adapter has the jeep wandering about and most comments seemed to suggest he had too much separation between the jeep and the coach pulling it.

I tried to level out my 2016 Tahoe with hitch adapter and it wandered terribly. I have towed Tahoe's for years and never had this happened. mine sits less than 4 inches lower than the motorhome
and I figure its ok

[glen-bob]

Not to argue with anything posted or what others have done. The paperwork for my Roadmaster setup stated 2”. One could deduct that ratings were determined within these parameters. Excessive angle will effect loading under braking.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Winger2

You need to read all my posts. I quoted Demco in one. That Demco post I quoted was in the sticky at the top of the toads page.
I have explained this numerous times, one more and done. Read what I quoted, below. Then I am finished with this thread.

I actually believe the manufacturers say 2 to 3" because many folks either do NOT use a braking system or you an inferior product to save a few bucks.

Read post 14

That would be post #14 from 2007. Things change as things get learned.

NOTHING in that post says "Pete" is an engineer. It just says he has access to Demco's iRV2 account.

"Pete" also wrote:

"The tow bar angle, in my mind, is less of an issue with a proper tow brake." and that seems to make it an opinion. Opinions are not facts and facts are not opinions.

And "But those drop receivers add at least two pin connections which adds slop in the tow set up."

"At least two"? Mine adds one, the one where the tow bar connects. The other pin connection is on the hitch.

Either that or one of the two of us does not know how to count.

I'm thinking that fellow is in Sales.

Ray

[ashman155]

for those who have toads a chuckle for you

[llihj]

Most of the respondents to this thread have focus on the effect of the toad braking system on an out of level tow bar. However, there is another important reason for keeping the tow bar as level as possible - tow bar loading

When the Motorhome and toad go over bumps and a angle develops between the two, the distance between the vehicle changes. The bigger the initial angle is, the bigger the fore and aft movement of the toad is relative to the Coach. This means with every bump, the weight of the toad is being jerked back and forth thru the tow bar. Being level minimizes this jerking, with the magnitude increasing with increased static angle - simple geometry. This can lead to tow bar failure due to dynamic overload and is one of the reasons for the manufacturer’s leveling limits.

[Old Rick]

I change ball mounts by 2" and now it's level.