All TOAD lights out

[jim58]

None of the lights on the toad work when connected. Read alot but so many different setups it's difficult to find anything that helps.


Coach - seperate amber and red lights...all working


Coach receptacle - 7 pin - have power on tail lights, L turn signal, R turn signal and ground reads good to chasis.


Cord - Ohms out good and beeps


Front of Versa - 4 pin - reading 2 grounds - one is in the normal diagram position for the ground - tail light pin also reading ground - short somewhere on the brown I'm assuming.


Motorhome lights and Versa lights all work as normal. I would have thought a blown fuse somewhere because the tail light brown wire pin in the receptacle on Versa is reading ground but haven't found any blown fuses.


Can't really do much more troubleshooting because I can't trace the wire past the engine compartment. Whoever installed the wiring harness has it hidden pretty good. Also nothing coming into the rear lights that resembles a flat 4 cable or small diodes.


A question on how this setup should work properly. Both vehicles have seperate Amber turn signals. When wired properly should both sets of amber turn signals function as normal? Or will the coach have amber turn signals and the Versa have the turn signals blinking on the red off the brake light? I'm leaning towards finding a shop that can wire this up correctly so knowing what's correct is important.


Any electrical gurus out there have any advice?


Thanks


Jim58

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Jim58-

Has it ever worked correctly? If so, when did the problem start?

Standard connector wiring diagrams are here.

Test #1: Plug the umbilical into the coach and test each pin for the correct signal at the toad end of the umbilical. If that tests correctly, then the problem is likely in the toad.

Test #2: Get two short piece of wire (12 or 14 AWG) and a 12V battery (or, use the pins on the coach if they are working correctly). Connect one wire to ground (battery and toad connector). Connect the second wire to the 12V positive and then touch it- one at a time- to the parking light and turn signal pins on the toad connector. Do the lights respond as expected?

[Bullitt6283]

Originally Posted by jim58

......A question on how this setup should work properly. Both vehicles have seperate Amber turn signals. When wired properly should both sets of amber turn signals function as normal? Or will the coach have amber turn signals and the Versa have the turn signals blinking on the red off the brake light?.....

You say that the coach has separate amber turn signals and red stop lights, and you say that the cable to the Versa has only 4 pins.
This leads me to believe that there was a module/adapter mounted in the rear of the coach which combines the turn signal & brake signal into one circuit for left and one circuit for right. This one circuit would feed the Versa brake light bulbs to work as both brake and turn signals. The Versa amber lights would not function at all.

Sometimes that 'combiner module' requires its own 12 volt power source to operate, so that may be something else to check.

As far as the Versa taillight wire reading like it is grounded, it might be that since there are multiple bulbs on that circuit, the resistance reading being low could be normal.
.

[Jthigh]

Ditto on Bullit’s comment on there being a module at the rear of the coach to combine the turn and brakes lights since you only have a 4 pin connector.

With 2 tail lights on the brown wire circuit this could give you a low ohm reading. Just pull the tails lamps out to see if ohm reading goes up.

Make sure you have a good chassis ground on the white wire on both coach and toad, but sounds like you checked that already

[jim58]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

Jim58-

Has it ever worked correctly? If so, when did the problem start?

Standard connector wiring diagrams are here.

Test #1: Plug the umbilical into the coach and test each pin for the correct signal at the toad end of the umbilical. If that tests correctly, then the problem is likely in the toad.

Test #2: Get two short piece of wire (12 or 14 AWG) and a 12V battery (or, use the pins on the coach if they are working correctly). Connect one wire to ground (battery and toad connector). Connect the second wire to the 12V positive and then touch it- one at a time- to the parking light and turn signal pins on the toad connector. Do the lights respond as expected?

Test 2 - Use the toad battery? Neg battery to ground on toad receptacle. Then pos off toad battery to each of the other 3 pins. If good then I should see each of the 3 circuits light up?


Jim58

[jim58]

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

You say that the coach has separate amber turn signals and red stop lights, and you say that the cable to the Versa has only 4 pins.
This leads me to believe that there was a module/adapter mounted in the rear of the coach which combines the turn signal & brake signal into one circuit for left and one circuit for right. This one circuit would feed the Versa brake light bulbs to work as both brake and turn signals. The Versa amber lights would not function at all.

Sometimes that 'combiner module' requires its own 12 volt power source to operate, so that may be something else to check.

As far as the Versa taillight wire reading like it is grounded, it might be that since there are multiple bulbs on that circuit, the resistance reading being low could be normal.
.

If there's an adapter would the turn signal over-ride the brake light. I'm solo but will try to rig something up to push the brake pedal. If I get a brake light, then put on a turn signal and the blinker comes on, then goes off when i turn it off, and brake light comes back bright...i guess there would be an adapter. Correct?

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Originally Posted by jim58

Test 2 - Use the toad battery? Neg battery to ground on toad receptacle. Then pos off toad battery to each of the other 3 pins. If good then I should see each of the 3 circuits light up?

Yes- the toad battery would work as a 12V test source.

One caution, though. Any time you use a bare wire off a battery, that is, a wire without a fuse, you run the risk of a fire. This could occur if the pin to which you apply the 12V is grounded (such as the parking light pin, per your prior test). Be careful.

Did you run test #1? Results?

Has it ever worked correctly? If so, when did the problem start?

By the way, it is possible to have a separate-light coach with standard combined turn/stop signals at the connector and not have a converter to make that happen.

[2cyber71]

I would do this.
Hook up the toads lights to a pickup truck with a 7 pin. Test the lights.
If they all work.
I bet your Motorhome ground wire got loose.
Common problem.
Try it.
Then reground the motorhome 7 pin.
I bet they work.

[jim58]

Originally Posted by 2cyber71

I would do this.
Hook up the toads lights to a pickup truck with a 7 pin. Test the lights.
If they all work.
I bet your Motorhome ground wire got loose.
Common problem.
Try it.
Then reground the motorhome 7 pin.
I bet they work.

I have continuity from the ground on the receptacle to the chassis, so ground appears to be good.



Jim58

[jim58]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

Yes- the toad battery would work as a 12V test source.

One caution, though. Any time you use a bare wire off a battery, that is, a wire without a fuse, you run the risk of a fire. This could occur if the pin to which you apply the 12V is grounded (such as the parking light pin, per your prior test). Be careful.

Did you run test #1? Results?

Has it ever worked correctly? If so, when did the problem start?

By the way, it is possible to have a separate-light coach with standard combined turn/stop signals at the connector and not have a converter to make that happen.

No, it has never worked properly. I bought the Bounder 32W, towbar, and Versa as a package deal from the original owner of both vehicles. At the time I wasn't too concerned about it, thinking I would sort it out later. When I got to looking at it (at a rest area) I discovered the wiring harness was buried somewhere past the firewall. Couldn't get under the car to see anything, couldn't find the wires anywhere inside, don't see any diodes when I pulled out the rear lights.



I'll probably wait until I get to Texas where I can jack it up and trace the wires. I'm guessing whoever installed it fed the rear wiring from somewhere else along the harness, instead of going all the way back to the rear lights.


I'll probably replace the entire set up and run the wires iand diodes inside the car where it's accessible for troubleshooting on the road.


Thanks everyone for the help. I'll reopen this when I get more information.


Jim58

[jim58]

If any of you guys are still around.


Have time to mess with this again. I found two controllers. One before the receptacle on the RV,


Another at the rear lights on the TOAD.



Is this even wired correctly? Why 2 controllers?


Jim58

[rgvtexan]

Can you get the model numbers?

[jim58]

Cant read any numbers on either.


Coach is a drawtite. Seems to be a 3 to 2 converter. Turn signal comes on with brakes applied.


The one in the car looks similar to this one
https://www.tekonsha.com/products/el...WaQAda7Dbchog=

[jim58]

Best guess is whoever wired the TOAD went from 3 to 2 at coach (or that converter came from the factory) and then went 2 to 3 at the car. I'm assuming he was trying to get the cars amber turn signals to work independently of the brake light signal.


I'm not sure if this is the correct way to wire this up or not. I haven't found any write-ups or videos explaining this method.


The right turn signal output on the coach converter has no signal. The left output on the car converter has no output signal. Thus both converters and turn signals inop.


So, I'm at the crossroads of replacing both converters and see if that is an option. Or find a different way.


I would prefer the turn signals be independent (amber) so the Patriot doesn't flush out the turn signals when it applies brake pedal at the same time turn signal is on.


Jim58