Backing a toad while hitched

[NXR]

Originally Posted by 96 Wideglide

Right in the owners manual that came with my Demco Excallibar, it states the bar is rated for 'limited' backing !

By "limited" they mean "only once".

Ray

[RRR]

[Isaac-1]

Backing an 1800 pound short wheel base smart car using a 7,000+ pound rated tow bar is one thing, I want to see him try it with a 4600 pound Jeep Grand Cherokee, without bending or breaking something.



Notice how much drop that guy had on the tow bar for the smart care too, way over the 3 inch suggested maximum.

[Roy-c]

Bottom line is should you do it, not can it be done. The short ( READ SAFE ) answer is just plain NO.
I can hook up or disconnect our Wrangler in a few minutes. ( at age 73 ) Not a big issue.

[radar]

We used to do it with the grand Cherokee. Lock the wheel. (Don’t forget your unlock). Good for 15 or 20 feet. Sometimes further. Keep an eye on the bar and the Jeep with the camera. React accordingly. No issues and did it many times.

[GWBGE]

So much for putting it to rest. [emoji854]

[TandW]

Originally Posted by amosnandy

notice how on a 1800# smart car the front tiered wes sliding all’s not how much pressure was on the side walls. The tire tread was just about rolled under.

I also connect 120 & 240 v wires live. I’ve been trained how to do it. But you should not.

ha ha ha!!!

[Bobthegod]

Ok so the manufacturers of the tow hitches say don't do it. I get that. But they are saying that because they "assume" you aren't locking the steering wheel down.

I use a Roadmaster Sterling All Terrain Tow Bar (8000 lb. tow capacity), towing a (3100 lb) 1999 Jeep Wrangler.

Now, I should ad I'm not backing up a mile or more, just into some camp sites and at the most no more then a city block. And, it does work going around corners. Most camp sites are at an angle and you need to turn one way or the other to get in. I do it......no problem. I also use a spotter jus to be safe. There's no creaking or cracking, no noises of parts be stressed, just a smooth backing. Remember you put more force pulling the toad forward then I would ever do backing it up a few feet. Also, I've more stress on the tow bar releases when I've stopped while going forward then I've ever had backing it up.

I'm not saying it's good for everyone to do......I'm saying it can be done if YOU are comfortable do it.

I've also sent my tow bar to Roadmaster as I've had it a number of years and towed thousands of miles. I wanted to have them check it and replace any worn parts. It came back with nothing wrong/replaced and they only cleaned the internals.

[FIRE UP]

Well,
Anyone can do anything, 'TILL SOMETHING BREAKS!!! Backing a toad in a straight line is not too bad, if, IF it stays completely straight. But, here's the thing that so far, as much as I've read on here, has not been mentioned. When you back say, a twin axle boat trailer, those axles, and tire contact points on the ground, are somewhat close together. When you back that trailer, the close proximity of the axles and tire contact points with the ground, allow for minimal SCUFFING of the tires.

Picture all this from a birds eye point of view. The coach and the toad, and all the tires combined, are all IN A STRAIGTH LINE. NO biggie.. as long as they stay in a straight line when backing. You could back from San Diego to New York in a straight line with that setup.

But, Now, start to turn that coach while backing a toad. And, lets say you CHAIN that steering wheel straight so it can't move. Again, looking at this from a birds eye view, you now have the coach and all its tires at one angle, and the toad AND ALL IT'S TIRES, at a totally different angle. And those toad axles and tire contact points ARE NOT CLOSE TOGETHER as they would be with a twin axle trailer.

So, now, you're pushing the front of that toad, in a direction, that the front tires ARE NOT AIMED AT! Therefore, you are (And there's no denying this), literally SLIDING the front tires in a somewhat sideways scuff! The rear tires of the toad could care less. They're rolling in any direction they're told to go.

If I was good enough to draw this scenario, they say pics are worth a thousand words. Well, yep, that would be true here.

Can you get away with it? Sure, 'TILL IT BREAKS. Metal is metal. It can take a bit of abuse, FOR A GIVEN TIME, until it can't take it anymore. If you could put some form of torque meters on each and every connection point of the towbar, I'd bet my house you'd see some phenomenal figures, SERIOUSLY higher figures than if going forward.

Now, there is absolutely ZERO comparison to moving FORWARD and turning with a coach and toad. The toads steering geometry and un locked steering wheel, allow for the front wheels to "follow" in any direction when sideways (turning or starting to turn) torque is applied. The back wheels of the toad again, just go where they're told to go.

The wife and I have, over the years, gotten so good at disconnecting, we can have the Jeep totally disconnected in less than ONE MINUTE. So, before I would EVEN THINK about damaging any parts of a $1000 tow bar, bending the recovery tabs or even cracking the welds where they attach on the front bumper, or damaging any steering components or tires on the Jeep, I'd have that thing disconnected in a heartbeat and then, I could back from here to China with any turning in any directions, without fear of damaging anything. Your choice on this one.
Scott

[Unplanned Tourist]

Originally Posted by FIRE UP

Well,
Anyone can do anything, 'TILL SOMETHING BREAKS!!! Backing a toad in a straight line is not too bad, if, IF it stays completely straight. But, here's the thing that so far, as much as I've read on here, has not been mentioned. When you back say, a twin axle boat trailer, those axles, and tire contact points on the ground, are somewhat close together. When you back that trailer, the close proximity of the axles and tire contact points with the ground, allow for minimal SCUFFING of the tires.


Scott

Well put.

I can back up with my Ranger hooked up as far as I want, as long as it's STRAIGHT BACK.

Try backing around a corner, and all heck breaks out!

[MSHappyCampers]

I contacted NSA RV Products with the question. They say DO NOT do it, that it can put stress on the towbars that they were not designed to take!

They also pointed out that with their towbars with built-in ReadyBrake that backing could cause the brakes to lock on the toad!

It's your money, spend it the way you want!

[Rob_M]

Pulling a car forward the steering geometry (caster) makes the wheels track in the direction its being pulled. Backing up the caster angle is backwards and the toad’s front tires will try to turn not following the direction they’re supposed to, side loading the front tires and putting odd loads on the towbar and links. Locking the steering wheel only works if everything is in a straight line and you back perfectly straight back. You can also put someone behind the wheel of the toad and they hold the wheel and correct the steering angle a little if necessary, but you must have communication with them and back very slowly. If the steering angle is kept correct there is no side scuffing the tires or stress on the tow bar. (I’m not responsible for broken thumbs if the steering wheel angle gets off enough to jerk the steering wheel out of someone’s hands)

Supplemental braking could cause another issue though, so be aware.

[Talloaks]

Originally Posted by Bobthegod

Ok so the manufacturers of the tow hitches say don't do it. I get that. But they are saying that because they "assume" you aren't locking the steering wheel down. ...How do you know this to be true? Have you contacted the manufacturer and asked them?


...I'm not saying it's good for everyone to do......I'm saying it can be done if YOU are comfortable do it.

There are a fair number of unwise practices that people have tried to defend on this forum, and here is one more.


It has nothing to do with whether you are "comfortable" doing this or not. Ignorance is bliss...until it's not. Like, somebody who says "I am comfortable crawling under my coach without placing blocks or stands under the frame... I am comfortable wiring 240v connections hot... I replaced my constantly-tripping GFCI outlet with a conventional outlet and haven't had it trip since... I am comfortable towing my toad with no braking system because I've done it for 10 years and haven't had a problem yet... I'm comfortable eating green moldy bread because, hey, that's what penicillin is made from, right?


There is no justifiable reason for doing any of these things, and the risk of a tragic outcome is not reduced because you didn't know enough to be uncomfortable with doing it.

[Barneyb]

I agree, if I was towing an oversized golf cart back up would not be a problem, I just always try and not put myself into a situation where I have to back up with the toad hooked up.