Braking systems

[Air Baron]

AppleUser, I could not agree more. Being new to RVing, I joined this forum to gain knowledge...specifically as to what equipment to buy. Many were touting the AF1 system, so I purchased it with the intention of installing it myself. I was an avionics technician in the Navy, an electrical assembler in an ordnance plant, a power generation sales engineer for much of my career and have been restoring an old Corvette for the last 10 years...so I am not averse to technology or doing things myself.

However, after looking over the contents of the shipment from SMI...I was amazed by the complexity, the bundles of wires and the amount of things that could go wrong...especially that black box. That is when I sought professional, un-biased advice from a knowledgeable individual who makes a living by modifying vehicles for towing.

I am still waiting to hear about a failure of the M&G system.

[Luckiest Dreamer]

I had the roadmaster 9100 and was happy with it's ability to do the job. However when I changed toads I decided to change braking systems as well and had the invisa-Brake installed. My reasoning was there would be absolutly nothing to do beyond plugging it in when attaching the tow bar. It also is designed to trickle charge the Toads battery at the same time. Having killed several batteries over the years that was a great selling point. I have now towed the new setup about 5000 miles and it is working well. I did read where some are having troubles with the system because of parts of the installetion process had a moisture problem. (for me it is so far so good)

[AppleUser]

Originally Posted by Air Baron

AppleUser, I could not agree more. Being new to RVing, I joined this forum to gain knowledge...specifically as to what equipment to buy. Many were touting the AF1 system, so I purchased it with the intention of installing it myself. I was an avionics technician in the Navy, an electrical assembler in an ordnance plant, a power generation sales engineer for much of my career and have been restoring an old Corvette for the last 10 years...so I am not averse to technology or doing things myself.

However, after looking over the contents of the shipment from SMI...I was amazed by the complexity, the bundles of wires and the amount of things that could go wrong...especially that black box. That is when I sought professional, un-biased advice from a knowledgeable individual who makes a living by modifying vehicles for towing.

I am still waiting to hear about a failure of the M&G system.

Air Baron, Hey, that's getting the lowdown first hand!!! You've listed some of the "other" reasons that we also went with M&G over AF-1. M&G won't fit all toweds, but for those it does, it has lots of supporting arguments as the system of choice other than being cheaper than many other solutions. Safe travels!

[thirdwall]

Originally Posted by Air Baron

AppleUser, I could not agree more. Being new to RVing, I joined this forum to gain knowledge...specifically as to what equipment to buy. Many were touting the AF1 system, so I purchased it with the intention of installing it myself. I was an avionics technician in the Navy, an electrical assembler in an ordnance plant, a power generation sales engineer for much of my career and have been restoring an old Corvette for the last 10 years...so I am not averse to technology or doing things myself.

However, after looking over the contents of the shipment from SMI...I was amazed by the complexity, the bundles of wires and the amount of things that could go wrong...especially that black box. That is when I sought professional, un-biased advice from a knowledgeable individual who makes a living by modifying vehicles for towing.

I am still waiting to hear about a failure of the M&G system.

I had the M & G installed on my 2012 Malibu by my dealer and twice it activated my ABS system when the car wasn't being towed! Pretty scary. M & G stated it needed an adjustment. I told the owner that the only adjustment I was doing was having it removed it from the car. I also asked that the dealer be given credit for the system The owner first refused until I told him my next call would be to the NHTSA. He gave the dealer credit.

I switched to the UTB---works great.

You've now heard about the first failure.

[Mr_D]

Is that it's required in lots of states. You have to be legal in EVERY STATE you travel in, not just you're home state. Equipment laws don't follow the vehicle like insurance and drivers licenses.

[Air Baron]

Originally Posted by thirdwall

You've now heard about the first failure.

You told me about a failure of your "dealer" to properly install and adjust the system. Please explain what you mean by the scary "activaton" of the ABS system. Do you mean the ABS warning light on your dash?

[thirdwall]

Originally Posted by Air Baron

You told me about a failure of your "dealer" to properly install and adjust the system. Please explain what you mean by the scary "activaton" of the ABS system. Do you mean the ABS warning light on your dash?

You were not there when my dealer installed the M & G system; your failure comment is an incorrect assumption.

The abs system suddenly started cycling on and off applying and releasing the brakes on the Malibu. I never touched the brakes, they just went off on their own as I was doing 55 mph. Just to be perfectly clear, I was driving the car without being connected to anything. I had to stop the car, turn it off and restart it. There was no abs light involved.

It happened twice about a week apart. SCARY!!!!

[loisjop]

Originally Posted by thirdwall

My dealer installed it properly. The abs system suddenly started cycling on and off applying and releasing the brakes on the Malibu. I never touched the brakes, they just went off on their own as I was doing 55 mph. Just to be perfectly clear, I was driving the car without being connected to anything. I had to stop the car, turn it off and restart it. There was no abs light involved.

It happened twice about a week apart. SCARY!!!!

Air Baron it's obvious you should have been in the Air Force. I have had both the M&g and the AF1 system. I installed them both and the AF 1 is much simpler to install. The M&G requires a very delicate adjustment to be made and lock tight installed or it will either not actuate your brakes on have them dragging. Like I said the M&G system is good if it's set up right. The M&G is also vehicle specific so when you trade you have to trade,and pay the diff. for one to fit the new vehicle.
The AF1 system is directly proportional and can be installed on any toad. I have installed the same AF1 unit on four different vehicles over the last six years and have had zero problems. Hook up the air line and break away and forget it until your destination.

[AppleUser]

Originally Posted by thirdwall

I had the M & G installed on my 2012 Malibu by my dealer and twice it activated my ABS system when the car wasn't being towed! Pretty scary. M & G stated it needed an adjustment. I told the owner that the only adjustment I was doing was having it removed it from the car. I also asked that the dealer be given credit for the system The owner first refused until I told him my next call would be to the NHTSA. He gave the dealer credit.

I switched to the UTB---works great.

You've now heard about the first failure.

thirdwall, Sorry to read about your problems which you are most likely inadvertently blaming M&G instead of the installing dealer. To me, your post suggests that you threw the baby out with the bath water, to quote an old saw. The issue was no doubt your dealer and not the M&G unit per say. Let me explain...

The master cylinder brake pushrod, which is activated by your brake pedal and has power added by the power brake unit must be checked/adjusted to a critical clearance. This adjustment is a fundamental step by a competent mechanic, regardless if a M&G push rod is installed or if the mechanic is replacing an OEM pushrod for a master cylinder repair. Not adjusting the pushrod was most likely your problem -- not the M&G. Did a certified automobile mechanic do the install or was it a RV dealer shop tech?

In short, without the MH air connected, in simplified wording, your vehicle's brakes function as without the M&G, except the pushrod is essentially a longer assembly than OEM to take up the distance for the M&G module.

As for your ABS activating, read the last paragraph of this link to see what can happen when a mech fails to check or adjust the master cylinder's push rod regardless of M&G or OEM. Sorry to read of your bad experience and that you were not made aware of the cause before you dumped the M&G. Getting rid of your incompetent dealer would have arguably been a better choice. Perhaps this will help others, though.

Link to simplified exclamation of how automobile hydraulic brakes work. PART 5 - How the Master Cylinder works

[AppleUser]

thirdwall, Apologies. Above link apparently does not work. Try this one:
PART 5 - How the Master Cylinder works
As you will see in the last paragraph, with a correctly adjusted pushrod, your ABS can activate after the brakes are used a few times. IMO your M&G did not fail. Your installing dealer failed. Installs of any complexity should not be done by just any RV dealer. Use an approved dealer and a trained/certified tech within that dealer. Hope his clarifies your issue!

[thirdwall]

Originally Posted by AppleUser

thirdwall, Sorry to read about your problems which you are most likely inadvertently blaming M&G instead of the installing dealer. To me, your post suggests that you threw the baby out with the bath water, to quote an old saw. The issue was no doubt your dealer and not the M&G unit per say. Let me explain...

The master cylinder brake pushrod, which is activated by your brake pedal and has power added by the power brake unit must be checked/adjusted to a critical clearance. This adjustment is a fundamental step by a competent mechanic, regardless if a M&G push rod is installed or if the mechanic is replacing an OEM pushrod for a master cylinder repair. Not adjusting the pushrod was most likely your problem -- not the M&G. Did a certified automobile mechanic do the install or was it a RV dealer shop tech?

In short, without the MH air connected, in simplified wording, your vehicle's brakes function as without the M&G, except the pushrod is essentially a longer assembly than OEM to take up the distance for the M&G module.

As for your ABS activating, read the last paragraph of this link to see what can happen when a mech fails to check or adjust the master cylinder's push rod regardless of M&G or OEM. Sorry to read of your bad experience and that you were not made aware of the cause before you dumped the M&G. Getting rid of your incompetent dealer would have arguably been a better choice. Perhaps this will help others, though.

Link to simplified exclamation of how automobile hydraulic brakes work. PART 5 - How the Master Cylinder works

Thank you for your input.

I will not tolerate any further accusations that my dealer is incompetent.

As to your link, you might as well post a schematic for an atomic bomb; it means nothing to me.

I don't think anyone understands that the M & G failed for when it was removed I never had the ABS go off on it's own again.

End of story.

[Air Baron]

AppleUser...Thank you for the accurate technical response, which was based on your first hand experience. You Air Force guys are the best.

[JDL]

Originally Posted by thirdwall

Thank you for your input.

I will not tolerate any further accusations that my dealer is incompetent.

As to your link, you might as well post a schematic for an atomic bomb; it means nothing to me.

I don't think anyone understands that the M & G failed for when it was removed I never had the ABS go off on it's own again.

End of story.

I can agree that when the M&G was removed your problem went away, however I would disagree with you on what your problem was.

I installed my M&G myself, it isn't a "mail order" bolt on component. It takes an understanding of the brake system.

I suggest that anyone who intends to install any brake component understand the difference between a master cylinder and an atomic weapon.

[thirdwall]

Originally Posted by JDL

I can agree that when the M&G was removed your problem went away, however I would disagree with you on what your problem was.

I installed my M&G myself, it isn't a "mail order" bolt on component. It takes an understanding of the brake system.

I suggest that anyone who intends to install any brake component understand the difference between a master cylinder and an atomic weapon.

LOL x 2!