Buying Toad - Cherokee Trailhawk

[gatorb8]

Originally Posted by Bikinjim

You may have the original Blue Ox baseplate version installed on your Trailhawk that does not include the welded tabs to tie the two baseplates to the car’s steel bumper. Blue Ox revised the baseplate to include those tabs after many hundreds were sold but did not recall the original version to my knowledge. Without the tabs, the constant cycling of the acceleration/deacceleration loads during towing will fatigue the flange welds and result in cracking and complete failure of those aluminum subframe members. I would recommend that you inspect your baseplate to ensure it’s the A version with the tabs and, if not, get the updated version from Blue Ox installed to strengthen your towing connection. I would also recommend that you inspect the steel radiator support cross member to insure that it has not also cracked and failed adjacent to each individual baseplate. Details on my experience with the original baseplate version, where the cracks may be on the radiator support cross member, and how to determine which baseplate version you may have is provided below.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/2015-...te-359284.html

This is a very concerning post as I have a 2014 Trail Hawk with a Blue Ox baseplate purchased 5/2014. I pulled out my installation manual and confirmed there is no welded tabs connected to the steel bumper. I called Blue Ox and asked them if I needed the updated base plate and their answer was “no”, those changes were for 2016 and beyond Cherokees. The Blue Ox rep said the frame extensions were steel on my 2014 and later changed to aluminum on the 2016. So I crawled under my TH and observed the frame extensions are aluminum. So, as you can imagine, I’m not sure what to believe. The good news though, is my aluminum welds are all intact. I will give another call to Blue Ox and see what they say. I would appreciate any input that will help my discussion. The rep did say I should check the baseplate-tow bar attachment points for looseness prior to towing. A loose baseplate will cause cracking of the aluminum frame weld.

[Bikinjim]

Originally Posted by gatorb8

This is a very concerning post as I have a 2014 Trail Hawk with a Blue Ox baseplate purchased 5/2014. I pulled out my installation manual and confirmed there is no welded tabs connected to the steel bumper. I called Blue Ox and asked them if I needed the updated base plate and their answer was “no”, those changes were for 2016 and beyond Cherokees. The Blue Ox rep said the frame extensions were steel on my 2014 and later changed to aluminum on the 2016. So I crawled under my TH and observed the frame extensions are aluminum. So, as you can imagine, I’m not sure what to believe. The good news though, is my aluminum welds are all intact. I will give another call to Blue Ox and see what they say. I would appreciate any input that will help my discussion. The rep did say I should check the baseplate-tow bar attachment points for looseness prior to towing. A loose baseplate will cause cracking of the aluminum frame weld.

Obviously I disagree with the info you got from the BO rep. I know at least 5 others (friends, people who contacted me from my post) with failed Al members. IMHO, I think there is a high likelihood of failure in your vehicle if you tow long enough with the original version. As you noted the Cherokees have the Al members. I believe that it was the cracked al members that caused the loose baseplate not that a loose baseplate was the cause for cracking the al members. In any case, the additional tabs on the revised design provide significant additional strength to prevent loosening of the baseplate in the first place.

[triplewide]

I may be off topic, and very likely have misunderstood some of the posted info.
Thanks for posting this, by the way.

I just completed toad set up on a 2017 Cherokee Trailhawk. Roadmaster base plate and tow bar. The base plate installed in place of the tow hooks. My tow bar has a piece that connects both left and right sides of the "triangle".

Two questions:

Do you think the external cross bar that completes the "triangle" on my bar will do the same thing to tie both points together?

How can someone look under the car to inspect the welds? If I am looking at the right thing, I can not see those connections without removing the front fascia and air dam.

[Bikinjim]

Originally Posted by triplewide

I may be off topic, and very likely have misunderstood some of the posted info.
Thanks for posting this, by the way.

I just completed toad set up on a 2017 Cherokee Trailhawk. Roadmaster base plate and tow bar. The base plate installed in place of the tow hooks. My tow bar has a piece that connects both left and right sides of the "triangle".

Two questions:

Do you think the external cross bar that completes the "triangle" on my bar will do the same thing to tie both points together?

How can someone look under the car to inspect the welds? If I am looking at the right thing, I can not see those connections without removing the front fascia and air dam.

I am not familiar with the Roadmaster baseplate. The original BO uses 2 individual towers (cantilevers) with 2 bolts into the steel frame ends and 3 bolts into the Al subframe members. The revision added the tabs at the end of the towers that bolted into the steel bumper which ties the 2 towers together and adds vertical support as well. The Roadmaster crossbar clearly would serve to tie the 2 elements together but I am not sure about the vertical component. It’s clearly better to tie them together in some fashion which the crossbar clearly does and is what I tried to accomplish with my field repair crossbar.

The Al sub frame members and the flange welds can easily be seen by laying under the car on each side and looking up behind the radiator. The pic below shows the sub frame member on my 2015 Trailhawk along with the flange weld crack. Again though, I do not know how the Roadmaster baseplate is designed or attached so it may not be applicable.

[Isaac-1]

You might consider buying a fiber optic inspection scope which will display to a smart phone, these can be found for under $30 these days.

[gatorb8]

I crawled under and viewed 3 sides with a flashlight and the top side with an automotive hand mirror

[Flentz56]

I’m pretty sure the fractures in the support extensions were due to two things, one being the vehicle in tow without the electronic steering engaged and second the weld was not intended to endure the twisting stress encountered when turning.
Now that both of the supports are steel and I have the mod to engage steering when towing I’m sure the base plates will be secure but I’ll still watch them.
When I found the one cracked I called blue ox about it and they didn’t even know what I was talking about, I sent them photos and they offered no advice.

[Isaac-1]

Was this with their original design baseplate for the Trailhawk, or their redesigned model that came out a couple of years ago?

[triplewide]

Originally Posted by gatorb8

I crawled under and viewed 3 sides with a flashlight and the top side with an automotive hand mirror

Thanks for the info. I was not looking far enough to the rear. Crawled under this morning and can easily see the welds on the bottom and partial sides.

[triplewide]

Originally Posted by Isaac-1

You might consider buying a fiber optic inspection scope which will display to a smart phone, these can be found for under $30 these days.

I keep thinking about getting one of theses, many uses. Several times I wish I'd had one but then I go on to some other project and forget about it until the next time I wish I had one.

[triplewide]

[QUOTE=Bikinjim;4847039]You may have the original Blue Ox baseplate version installed on your Trailhawk that does not include the welded tabs to tie the two baseplates to the car’s steel bumper. Blue Ox revised the baseplate to include those tabs after many hundreds were sold but did not recall the original version to my knowledge. Without the tabs, the constant cycling of the acceleration/deacceleration loads during towing will fatigue the flange welds and result in cracking and complete failure of those aluminum subframe members. I would recommend that you inspect your baseplate to ensure it’s the A version with the tabs and, if not, get the updated version from Blue Ox installed to strengthen your towing connection. I would also recommend that you inspect the steel radiator support cross member to insure that it has not also cracked and failed adjacent to each individual baseplate. Details on my experience with the original baseplate version, where the cracks may be on the radiator support cross member, and how to determine which baseplate version you may have is provided below.

I checked Etrailer videos for the current installation procedures for the Blue Ox and Roadmaster.

Roadmaster has 3 bolts vertical to bumper and 3 bolts horizontal to Aluminum frame extensions.

Blue Ox has 3 bolts vertical to bumper, 3 bolts horizontal to Aluminum frame extension, and 2 bolts horizontal through bumper beam.

Are the bolts added in the Blue Ox revision the 3 vertical to the bumper? If so I can understand why there was a failure.


Etrailer videos, open page, scroll down, videos are on the left side of screen:

Roadmaster cross bar style base plate on a 2018 Cherokee Trailhawk. Base plate install starts at about 11:00 min mark:

https://www.etrailer.com/Base-Plates...ID=20171371006

Blue Ox base plate install on a 2017 Cherokee Trailhawk.Base plate install starts at about 8:00 min mark:

https://www.etrailer.com/Base-Plates...ID=20171372957

[Bikinjim]

Originally Posted by Flentz56

I’m pretty sure the fractures in the support extensions were due to two things, one being the vehicle in tow without the electronic steering engaged and second the weld was not intended to endure the twisting stress encountered when turning.
Now that both of the supports are steel and I have the mod to engage steering when towing I’m sure the base plates will be secure but I’ll still watch them.
When I found the one cracked I called blue ox about it and they didn’t even know what I was talking about, I sent them photos and they offered no advice.

In my case the failures in the Al members occurred without ever having a wobble in my Jeep so that was not a factor. The cause for my failures was due to the inadequate BO original baseplate design of not having the tabs bolted to the steel Cherokee bumper. I can’t speak to the adequacy of the system with steel subframe members, but it surely is more robust with the revised version A design. It’s your call as to how to handle, I am just providing my experience for others to consider as I feel this is a safety concern. And I had essentially the same discussion with the BO tech you had when I called after identifying my failures, i.e., “this is the first time we have had a complaint with that baseplate but we redesigned it to make it stronger and can send one to you”. Then the next day i inspected our friends Cherokee while on the Newfoundland trip, and found the same failures. They then called the same tech at BO about their issue and received the same response that I did. They had to mention my experience to get him to say that there had been previous issues.

[Bikinjim]

Originally Posted by Isaac-1

Was this with their original design baseplate for the Trailhawk, or their redesigned model that came out a couple of years ago?

This was on the original design BX1136 baseplate. The tabs that strengthened the design were added in revision A. I replaced my original design with a revision A baseplate that BO provided me in July 2017.

[Bikinjim]

[QUOTE=triplewide;4848575]

Originally Posted by Bikinjim

You may have the original Blue Ox baseplate version installed on your Trailhawk that does not include the welded tabs to tie the two baseplates to the car’s steel bumper. Blue Ox revised the baseplate to include those tabs after many hundreds were sold but did not recall the original version to my knowledge. Without the tabs, the constant cycling of the acceleration/deacceleration loads during towing will fatigue the flange welds and result in cracking and complete failure of those aluminum subframe members. I would recommend that you inspect your baseplate to ensure it’s the A version with the tabs and, if not, get the updated version from Blue Ox installed to strengthen your towing connection. I would also recommend that you inspect the steel radiator support cross member to insure that it has not also cracked and failed adjacent to each individual baseplate. Details on my experience with the original baseplate version, where the cracks may be on the radiator support cross member, and how to determine which baseplate version you may have is provided below.

I checked Etrailer videos for the current installation procedures for the Blue Ox and Roadmaster.

Roadmaster has 3 bolts vertical to bumper and 3 bolts horizontal to Aluminum frame extensions.

Blue Ox has 3 bolts vertical to bumper, 3 bolts horizontal to Aluminum frame extension, and 2 bolts horizontal through bumper beam.

Are the bolts added in the Blue Ox revision the 3 vertical to the bumper? If so I can understand why there was a failure.


Etrailer videos, open page, scroll down, videos are on the left side of screen:

Roadmaster cross bar style base plate on a 2018 Cherokee Trailhawk. Base plate install starts at about 11:00 min mark:

https://www.etrailer.com/Base-Plates...ID=20171371006

Blue Ox base plate install on a 2017 Cherokee Trailhawk.Base plate install starts at about 8:00 min mark:

https://www.etrailer.com/Base-Plates...ID=20171372957

Yes, the tabs and vertical bolts are what was added in the BO revision A design. The original design didn’t have the tabs so couldn’t be fixed to the bumper. And it does look like the Roadmaster design accomplishes the same function as the tabs and vertical bolts in the revised BO design. I also noticed that the BO design shown on the link you attached is now revision B. Below is a pic of my original version BX1136 and you can see there isn’t a welded tab on it.