Charging Tesla at RV Park

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

50 amps is 50 amps, but the total electrical usage in KWH depends on just what is plugged in and drawing current. RV parks set their prices to account for normally expected electrical usage in the motorhome. To add to that expected usage the power required to drive your car is to me, like takin two people to an all-you-can-eat buffet but paying for only one. The electric car driver is double dipping and using more power than expected.

Either the RV park eats the extra power expense, or if this became prevalent, then they would have to raise their rates to offset the extra cost. That would force all campers to chip in to pay for the power used by the electric cars. Either way, the electric car owner is driving his car at somebody else’s expense. That somebody else is getting shafted.

Not sure what you mean by "more power than expected".
So a all-electric Prevost conversion with 4 or 5 ac's should pay more than a small class A with 2 ac's and propane appliances?
Probably a good idea, but don't see it happening.
Given the amount of people willing to tow a Tesla on a trailer, can't see it any different that having the odd 5 AC Prevost in their campground.

[brobox]

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

50 amps is 50 amps, but the total electrical usage in KWH depends on just what is plugged in and drawing current. RV parks set their prices to account for normally expected electrical usage in the motorhome. To add to that expected usage the power required to drive your car is to me, like takin two people to an all-you-can-eat buffet but paying for only one. The electric car driver is double dipping and using more power than expected.

Either the RV park eats the extra power expense, or if this became prevalent, then they would have to raise their rates to offset the extra cost. That would force all campers to chip in to pay for the power used by the electric cars. Either way, the electric car owner is driving his car at somebody else’s expense. That somebody else is getting shafted.

Reminds me of everybody streaming movies on park wifi. There is no more reliable park wifi. Now we all have had to purchase monthly cell phone hot spots to have usable wifi. Just like wifi a few will try to ruin it where we all have to pay more. Personally I would rat them out to the park office.

[Alpine36]

To bad they can't be towed flat four and charge themselves up while being towed, maybe someday. IMHO, if it was my park I wouldn't allow car charging without an additional fee, say five bucks or so, provided the pedestal had the ampacity to support it.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Although you can't imagine the pedestal being wired for 100 amps, its a good chance it is.
Most are wired for more then that and supply multiple pedestals.

No matter how they wire them, the breaker servicing that run, back at the supply, would be the proper amps to protect the wiring, and trip there.

If you plug in a bunch of stuff on the same breaker at home, that breaker will protect the wires. If you spread it out, and go overboard, the main will trip.

They don't build systems to burn up the wiring.

True, but they also are not designed for a 100% duty cycle. A 50-amp breaker circuit is supposed to carry no more than 80% or 40 amps.

It depends on the number of RV sites, but the usual load factor for the site feeders per the 2017 NEC is 47% as I recall. Older campgrounds use a lesser load factor but the number escapes me. The load calculations are based one RV (or device) per pedestal, not (50 + 30 = 80) * .8 = 64 amps of draw per pedestal.

An RV is generally an intermittent load as things cycle on and off. Charging a depleted car will be a continuous load. Decreasing over some time scale but still continuous. One Tesla today likely is not going to be noticed. Five years from now when the major car manufacturers have electrified almost all of their product line it will be a different story. Ten years out as cars age out and are replaced with electric, definitely.

Ray

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by NXR

. Five years from now when the major car manufacturers have electrified almost all of their product line it will be a different story. Ten years out as cars age out and are replaced with electric, definitely.

Ray

That's going to be the case everywhere, not just in campgrounds.

The whole electric grid is going to become overloaded with thousands of plug-in cars soon.

Pretty soon we will only be charging them on sunny, windy days.

[radar]

Tesla owners here. We have been towing an electric vehicle on a trailer for about 5 years. (Not a Tesla). First and foremost, it is rare that we actually needed to charge the car in a campground. If you are out and about enjoying the area there are level 2 or level 3 chargers almost everywhere now. If for some reason it worked out that we need to top up it wasn't much power and just selecting a low power recharge would resolve any overload issues. Contrary to popular belief EV's just don't use that much power in the big scheme of things. In our daily lives we average about 7 KW per day...which is coincidentally a little below what the north American EV average is. ( think 8 KW daily)

We are looking at a trailer to haul around the Tesla but the reality is with COVID we won't need it till next year. We prefer hauling on a trailer as opposed to 4 down or on a dolly. Little longer hookup but the ability to back up and even essentially parallel park is handy. Plus less wear and tear on a vehicle that is built really really low to the ground. Hauling a premium high performance sport sedan behind a motorhome 4 wheels down would be...well...uncomfortable for us. Anyway, as someone else pointed out, its not an accepted way to pull a Tesla. Plus there would be no way to turn the car on as it has no keys and it is essentially your butt that turns on the car when you sit in it. Without turning it on the power management for the regeneration would not work and I suspect bad things would happen. (Don't know actually)

We have seen at least a half dozen teslas on trailers behind motorhomes, I think two were the same guy twice, Still kinda rare.

What is going to change is when tow vehicles become electric. Cybertruck, Rivian, Ford F150 Electric,GM etc etc. All due out in the next two years.
Then campers are going to want to charge at the site. Rookies will pop breakers. More experienced RVers/EV'ers will simply manage the loads. Easy in a Tesla. If the campground owner/operator doesn't allow it they will simply move on to another campground. Campgrounds will have to adapt just like every body else. Those who don't won't survive. Depending on which province or state or even country you are in you won't be able to buy anything with a Tail pipe in just over 19 years. Some as little as just over 9 years. They have time to adapt.

Oh, and specifically to your question, we just used the 120 volt adapter and plugged into the standard 120 volt outlet on the post. Like I say, it was really just a top up situation so not a lot of power needed. If you plug in the car at 6 at night, at 8 the next morning you have still stuffed 21 KW in the car at a 1.5 KW rate which is what you'll get from a 15 amp standard 120 outlet. If you are really desperate I suppose you could just plug the motorhome into the 30 amp socket for the night and let the motorhomes load control system keep the load under control. This would allow you to plug your cars EVSE into the 240 socket and have a greater charge capacity. Set the car to maybe 16 amp 240 volt charge rate and you'll get a mostly full charge the next day.

We actually plugged the EVSE into a dedicated 120 volt 15 amp coach outlet (the block heater) and just ran all the power through the coach. Just plug in the coach. No splitters needed. Easy peazy. We set our EVSE up permanently in the front compartment. No weather issues and always handy.



We just move it back to the garage when we are back home in situe. We plug in into 240 at home.




Gratuitous photo op. These are built low. You wouldn't want to tow this without a little protection. Our Jeep grand cherokee had a sand blasted front end after 5 years of 4 down towing.

[pogoil]

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtem.../#71956f363ef4


The link above suggests an electric car charges at 32 amps overnight for 10 hours. That is a lot of sustained juice for a long period. Also states 32 amps at a 30 amp site would be a bad thing.
A 30 amp breaker is rated for

+ or - 20% so a 30 amp breaker could produce 4300 watts and that is how wires get heated and will burn at a loose connection or one that may have any corrosion.

[radar]

Originally Posted by pogoil

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bradtem.../#71956f363ef4


The link above suggests an electric car charges at 32 amps overnight for 10 hours. That is a lot of sustained juice for a long period. Also states 32 amps at a 30 amp site would be a bad thing.
A 30 amp breaker is rated for

+ or - 20% so a 30 amp breaker could produce 4300 watts and that is how wires get heated and will burn at a loose connection or one that may have any corrosion.

That is not realistic, at least for a Toad, unless for some reason you arrived with an empty battery...meaning you drove 300 miles that day..in your toad. A realistic number would be maybe 20 KW of topping up. An overnight on a 15 amp 120 volt circuit would be more the norm for a Toad. Now if its the actual tow vehicle. Yep. Going to be more as they will have big batteries. Still, its all user selectable. Set the current down to 16 amps at 240. Lots of power to go around on a 50 amp circuit.

[pogoil]

Originally Posted by radar

That is not realistic, at least for a Toad, unless for some reason you arrived with an empty battery...meaning you drove 300 miles that day..in your toad. A realistic number would be maybe 20 KW of topping up. An overnight on a 15 amp 120 volt circuit would be more the norm for a Toad. Now if its the actual tow vehicle. Yep. Going to be more as they will have big batteries. Still, its all user selectable. Set the current down to 16 amps at 240. Lots of power to go around on a 50 amp circuit.

The big problem is people do not understand electric in their Rv so also will not have a clue about their car charging. That is why most 30 amp receptacles at state parks are burned up.

[rarebear.nm]

IMO many good points made here. RV campgrounds are free to devise their own rate structure, with consideration for each utility they pay for, electric, water, waste, WiFi, cable TV, etc. We are never likely to know what their rate structure really is, just one total cost, as it should be. We already see parks that have one price for 30 amp sites vs 50 amp sites. I do not see parks checking how many AC units or if you're driving an all electric RV to set a sure charge on your fee.

Under the not fair argument, why is it fair to charge a small TT that is mostly propane the same as a 40+ ft Class A total electric. The smaller RV community has long subsidized the bigger rigs. That's just how things are. Why would/should a park really care how the electrical power is used as long as the usage is within safety limits?

As a larger portion of vehicles become electric RV parks are going have to adapt in order to survive these changes. Just as they needed to add WiFi and other services to compete. Business is all about learning to change or perish. The last 20 years has clearly shown that.

I would not be very worried about many tow vehicles being electric within our RVing life times. Toads yes. In the next couple of years we will see multiple makes of F150 trucks coming on the market. Some of them will have or soon there after have useable towing capacity for many trips. We will be seeing limited number of semi class trucks going electric in the near future, but there will be a delay until we see electric trucks in the larger 1 ton, RAM 3500 class capable of making long hauls with heavy trailers. Will that day come, I think so, but that market place is fairly small and will likely be one of the later ones to be addressed by the EV makers. Our larger RAM 3500 class truck will still rule the heavy towing market for a number of years.

I would not worry about power grid over load and the wires turning red because of all the EV's charging at the same time. Bear in mind when ICE based vehicles came out little over 100 years ago, there was not fuel supply systems, service facilities, much in the way of decent roads, gas tax, or the rest of infrastructure we have today to support ICS vehicles. But stillit all came about and at the start no one knew they even needed of that infrastructure. But yet it came about. Same will happen with EVs in each category.

If I owned, and wish I did, an EV I'd want to take it with me as a toad. If a campground has rules I did not like I'd move on and vote with my pocket book. That's a vote business people understand.

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by PJStough

Doesnt a 50 amp outlet on the pedestal have two hot wires that are capable of 50 amps each, making 100 amps total?

It's still a 50 amp circuit. No load can exceed 50 amps without tripping the breaker.

[jcussen]

Many people do not understand what it takes to charge a EV. When I first got my Tesla, I only had the 120 volt adapter for the charging cord. I would drive 20-25 miles a day and recharge the car on a normal 120 volt 15 amp receptacle at 10 amps overnight. 10 amps is less power than many microwaves, toaster ovens, and of course a roof ac, draw.

[mjbenedict]

If I had an electric vehicle to charge in a campground I wouldn't do it unless I was on a metered site or paid the campground extra. Would you take one of their gas cans and fill your vehicle?
Those saying 10A or 30A is not much compared to motorhome use are forgetting most of the loads in a camper are not continuous.
It's selfish to fuel your vehicle on someone else's dime, there's no other way to put it. Even if the clueless camp check in person said it was alright, I would not do so without compensating them.

[radar]

Originally Posted by mjbenedict

If I had an electric vehicle to charge in a campground I wouldn't do it unless I was on a metered site or paid the campground extra. Would you take one of their gas cans and fill your vehicle?
Those saying 10A or 30A is not much compared to motorhome use are forgetting most of the loads in a camper are not continuous.
It's selfish to fuel your vehicle on someone else's dime, there's no other way to put it. Even if the clueless camp check in person said it was alright, I would not do so without compensating them.

We did that the first few times. Nobody seemed to care. This will probably change when EV’s are used as tow vehicles. Big batteries, longer and faster charging rates. Competent management will have a price structure that adds a cost for EV charging. Incompetent management will go broke.

AC’s in hot weather are a constant load. An EV is not. Once it is charged it is charged. People just don’t burn thru that much power in an EV. 3 to 4 hours running two AC’s on a Motorhome is probably more than the average EV charge in a day...and that’s only if they are out touring around.

Another approach for campgrounds would be to Not allow campsite charging and only allow a charge at destination chargers the campground puts in. We are already seeing this happen in BC. Destination chargers are cheap. (Tesla gives them away for free). Just the 50 or 60 amp power drop would have to be paid for by the campground. Make them pay as you go with a swipe card. Too easy.