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Old 09-15-2020, 12:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by sirpurrcival View Post
I haven't read all of this thread but much of the focus seems to have been on infrastructure question or the "unfair" to the campground point of view. If it hasn't been covered here, the basic question can be answered in two ways.

1. as has been mentioned, EV's can be charged off a 15 amp circuit. Yeah it can take a long time but unless you putting serious miles on an EV, chances are with today's vehicles, you aren't putting much in to begin with. That kind of charging isn't going to put too much strain on any decent pedestal.

2. As for a cost to the campground. That involves a question of how much a KW hour actually costs in the region you are in. Now I live in a fairly cheap electricity area but the US avg. cost of electricity per kwh is about 12 cents. Yes it may be more in specific regions but even if you paid 20 cents per kwh you would only be consuming about 4$ for 20 kwh's of charging. My leaf has a grand total capacity of 24 kwh and I can count the number of times I have come close to having to put in a full load after 3 years of ownership. Cars with greater ranges tend to get charged even less often.

What is a campground with full hookups charging these days? In most cases you are looking north of $30.00 per night with many costing considerably more.

So if I am at a campground for 3 or 4 nights and over that time I put in 12 bucks of electricity, I don't think that is particularly egregious. Campgrounds are gonna make their own rules but the cost to the campground argument doesn't really hold water for me. When you look at some of the rigs out there that sport multiple TV's, fireplaces, electric water heaters, heated floors, multiple AC units, etc, Those units seem to get off scott free when talking about energy consumption. But all of a sudden, you plug in an electric car and that is a big deal.

As has also been mentioned, EV's aren't going away. What was once a novelty to see is becoming more and more commonplace. Campgrounds are going to have to adapt to this new reality. If they are truly concerned, they can put in a charging station or two and campers can pay for the privilege but if they aren't going to do that, then they will begin to lose out to campgrounds that do make some provision for it. It only makes good business sense. Having a charging station is not only sensible for your guests but can bring in other traffic. Today's passing EV might be tomorrows guest or today's customer at the camp store. EV owners have had to become a network for their own support. Apps that tell them where charging stations can be found, what kinds of other amenities are available etc. etc. It is cheap advertising and any business will benefit from something that helps bring in traffic.
Well said!
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Old 09-15-2020, 02:53 PM   #58
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I'd like to see an electric car tow-able four down. How this is different than coasting to charge the batteries as they already do? Imagine being able to keep your house batteries charged from the toad, and arriving with a full charge on both the toad and the house batteries. With the coming Jeep Wrangler 4xe coming this year could 4 down towing be available?
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:18 PM   #59
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At my parks, Seven 50 amp services were looped on each 200 amp service. We could do that because even if all 7 sites were occupied by all electric Prevosts on a hot day the sum total of power being drawn by all those rigs would not exceed 200 amps.
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I knew something about his story didn't add up because the main break should be sized to handle the 6 sites at the rated load. I wasn't drawing anywhere near 50 amps . . .
The NEC was recently changed to require feeder and service sizing based on 12kVA for each 50A site, where it used to be 9.6kVA. But it also allows a demand factor of 0.55 for 7-9 sites [NEC Table 551.73], so 7 sites of 50A each on a single feeder would be 12kVA x 7 x 0.55 / 240V = 192.5A. Hence the 200A feeder. But if the average sustained draw is more than 200A, the feeder breaker will open. How long that takes depends on how much of an overcurrent condition exists, as breakers used for such circuits don't just instantly trip on overcurrent. And there’s no requirement to update older installations, of course.

Point being, it wouldn't be hard to overload the feeder with 7 large RVs on a hot sunny day, especially with 'extra' loads plugged in. The NEC was updated to require 12kVA per 50A (the 30A and 20A didn't change), but with such a low demand factor, feeder overload is bound to happen when pushed.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:32 PM   #60
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I'd like to see an electric car tow-able four down. How this is different than coasting to charge the batteries as they already do? Imagine being able to keep your house batteries charged from the toad, and arriving with a full charge on both the toad and the house batteries. With the coming Jeep Wrangler 4xe coming this year could 4 down towing be available?
Its totally doable and Rivian says there trucks will be 4 down towable. No other EV manufacturer has spent the money to write the software...which is the only thing required.

So for example, Take Tesla. The car needs to be on to have the battery management system functional to deal with managing all the current coming back from regen. But in the case of the Tesla that is actually more difficult than it sounds. There is presently no way to turn on a Tesla without having somebody in the seat. Teslas don't have keys or FOBS or switches. The car senses the presence of your iphone and when your butt hits the seat the car turns on. When your butt leaves the seat the car goes off. There is literally no on off button in a TESLA. You can also turn it on with a keycard or a ring and there is a FOB available to unlock doors etc. But yah, someone would have to be hired to wite the code to deal with the 4 down sceenario. All doable. But it is a matter of how big of a market there is in that. How many more cars will they sell. My guess is once Rivian is out with their 4 down towable truck and SUV Tesla may revisit this.

The car can still have the HVAC systym activated for people or dogs left in the car when the driver is not there but the car is immobile in these modes.

This is the screen when no driver is in the car but pets or people are. My wife is only slightly amused when I leave her in the car with dog mode on.



If we don't have our phone with us this is how we turn on the car. Do you think I have a career as a hand model?

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Old 09-15-2020, 04:41 PM   #61
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Its totally doable and Rivian says there trucks will be 4 down towable. No other EV manufacturer has spent the money to write the software...which is the only thing required.

So for example, Take Tesla. The car needs to be on to have the battery management system functional to deal with managing all the current coming back from regen. But in the case of the Tesla that is actually more difficult than it sounds. There is presently no way to turn on a Tesla without having somebody in the seat. Teslas don't have keys or FOBS or switches. The car senses the presence of your iphone and when your butt hits the seat the car turns on. When your butt leaves the seat the car goes off. There is literally no on off button in a TESLA. You can also turn it on with a keycard or a ring and there is a FOB available to unlock doors etc. But yah, someone would have to be hired to wite the code to deal with the 4 down sceenario. All doable. But it is a matter of how big of a market there is in that. How many more cars will they sell. My guess is once Rivian is out with their 4 down towable truck and SUV Tesla may revisit this.

The car can still have the HVAC systym activated for people or dogs left in the car when the driver is not there but the car is immobile in these modes.

This is the screen when no driver is in the car but pets or people are. My wife is only slightly amused when I leave her in the car with dog mode on.



If we don't have our phone with us this is how we turn on the car. Do you think I have a career as a hand model?

Did not know about the ring, do you have to swipe it on the door jamb and leave it on the console like a key card? Forget about the hand modeling job.
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Old 09-15-2020, 04:45 PM   #62
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Did not know about the ring, do you have to swipe it on the door jamb and leave it on the console like a key card? Forget about the hand modeling job.
Lol. . You hold it against the pillar to gain access. Then hold it over the centre console for a second to activate. Essentially it is a key card. You donít have to leave it on the console. We have only used our key cards once or twice. Does the key card have to remain on the console).
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Old 09-15-2020, 07:56 PM   #63
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My neighbor tows his Tesla on a trailer behind his Class A .When he charges it up at a campground he uses the 30 amp plug on the pedestal with NO problems, I do not know how many amps he has it set up to use. It works good for him...
I parked next to a guy with one of the new short Newmar Pushers (33' I think) and he towed a Tesla model 3 on a flatbed. He was a pretty saavy Software engineer who fulltimes and works remote.

He has owned Tesla's for more than 10 years back to the original version built on the lotus chassis and claimed to have met Elon and communicates with him on a regular basis via email. When we talked about 4 down towing, he too mentioned that it was really only a software upgrade and he was gonna fire off a not to Elon to see what he could do

But I gotta say if an electric car could be towed 4 down/recharged while towing this would really be something

BTW he had a set-up that he would charge into the 30A plug while his MH was plugged into the 50A outlet. He claimed he always asks if it's OK with the park and only once has he been tond no!

Anyhow that what he said
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Old 09-15-2020, 08:03 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by paul65k View Post
I parked next to a guy with one of the new short Newmar Pushers (33' I think) and he towed a Tesla model 3 on a flatbed. He was a pretty saavy Software engineer who fulltimes and works remote.

He has owned Tesla's for more than 10 years back to the original version built on the lotus chassis and claimed to have met Elon and communicates with him on a regular basis via email. When we talked about 4 down towing, he too mentioned that it was really only a software upgrade and he was gonna fire off a not to Elon to see what he could do

But I gotta say if an electric car could be towed 4 down/recharged while towing this would really be something

BTW he had a set-up that he would charge into the 30A plug while his MH was plugged into the 50A outlet. He claimed he always asks if it's OK with the park and only once has he been tond no!

Anyhow that what he said
He had one of these.

https://www.evseadapters.com/product...l-s-x-3-gen-2/

It allows the Tesla EVSE to get a full 24 amps at 120 volts from TT30 plug. Without it he would just get 12 amps.
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:38 PM   #65
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I'd like to see an electric car tow-able four down. How this is different than coasting to charge the batteries as they already do? Imagine being able to keep your house batteries charged from the toad, and arriving with a full charge on both the toad and the house batteries. With the coming Jeep Wrangler 4xe coming this year could 4 down towing be available?


Fisher told me at CES this year that their electric SUV will be towable 4 down. Should be available late 2021 or early 2022.
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:49 PM   #66
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Fisher told me at CES this year that their electric SUV will be towable 4 down. Should be available late 2021 or early 2022.

Cool. Is that the Fisker ocean?
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:15 PM   #67
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Cool. Is that the Fisker ocean?


Yes. Sorry for the misspelling.
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