Do I need aux brakes on my toad ?

[777 Driver]

Originally Posted by awol50

Traffic violations are civil infractions. No jail time for that.
Breakaway occurances are extremely rare. And having your toad screech to a stop, maybe in your traffic lane, but just as easily in the oncoming lane, or just plain not working as intended is hardly reassuring.
Toad brakes are impossible to monitor to verify they actually work the way you think they are or should work.
For lightweight toads pulled by heavy diesel pushers, etc, I think it is just as easy of a decision to forego toad brakes. Slowing down a little, don't tailgate, keep toad weight down and keep RV cargo weight down a little are far better safety measures that actually prevent accidents in all circumstances.
Toad brakes have the same psychological effects on RV drivers as helmets on football players. More risk taking.

Hi Brian,

Without a doubt, breakaway occurrences are extremely rare. Be glad for that. However, most recognized risk assessment models also consider the potential consequences of even extremely rare events. If the potential consequences are significant, taking action to mitigate those possible consequences is prudent.

I certainly do agree with your suggestions of "Slowing down a little, don't tailgate, keep toad weight down and keep RV cargo weight down a little..." Those are all good practices.

I am, though, a little confused by your signature:
2016 Winnebago Forza 36G
Pushed by a 2003 Chevy Tracker

I'm just trying to understand how your 2003 Chevy Tracker "pushing" (and, every time you're decelerating your Tracker is, indeed, pushing) your Forza is a good idea. That seems to be a bit of a logic discontinuity. At least, that's my opinion.

Speaking of opinions, some opinions are based on sound fact and logic; others, not so much. At least, that's my opinion.

Take care,
Stu

[Dark Sky]

Awol, it is very possible to know that toad brakes are working. In the first place you can feel them. In the second place some systems including mine include a confirmation light on my dash. It is not activated by a signal from the bus nor from the brake system. It is activated by movement of the toad brake pedal.

In addition, your logic is difficult to follow. It sounds like you're saying that you are a safer driver since you don't wear your seat belt.

[awol50]

Originally Posted by Alpine36

Sooooo, what your saying is adding an additional layer of safety creates an unknowing safety hazard. Got it.

That's not what I said. I said it makes it easier for the driver to justify riskier driving because you feel safer with toad brakes.

[awol50]

Originally Posted by Dark Sky

Awol, it is very possible to know that toad brakes are working. In the first place you can feel them. In the second place some systems including mine include a confirmation light on my dash. It is not activated by a signal from the bus nor from the brake system. It is activated by movement of the toad brake pedal.

In addition, your logic is difficult to follow. It sounds like you're saying that you are a safer driver since you don't wear your seat belt.

Indy car drivers wear full flameproof suits, 4 way harnesses, helmets with restraints among other safety measures.
Do you think they would drive those cars 200+mph wearing shorts and tee shirts with no helmet and no restraints?
Of course the answer is NO.
The perception of risk and feeling safer affects risk taking behavior.. That's all I am saying.

[Alpine36]

Originally Posted by awol50

Indy car drivers wear full flameproof suits, 4 way harnesses, helmets with restraints among other safety measures.
Do you think they would drive those cars 200+mph wearing shorts and tee shirts with no helmet and no restraints?
Of course the answer is NO.
The perception of risk and feeling safer affects risk taking behavior.. That's all I am saying.

I think I know what you're trying to say, however how does decreasing stopping distance negatively affect risk behavior? In my case it's just part of being well prepared for the panic stop situation we all infrequently encounter...i.e. deer, elk, kids chasing a ball, red light runners, impaired drivers etc. Anything to decrease the odds of a collision is a good thing, not an excuse to go faster or throw caution to the wind.
I also have three fire extinguishers onboard. By your logic, does that mean I'm more likely to play with gasoline and matches? Of course not.
I can say for a fact that having brakes on our 3500lb TJ decreases stopping distance significantly. How do I know?
Yes, I tried towing it without a supplemental braking system a couple times before I made the investment in a system complete with safety breakaway. Huge difference, I'd estimate a 15-20% decrease in stopping distance overall. That's at about 85% of our coaches rated gvwcr. Does that mean I should go ahead and load an additional 2-3k lb weight in the coach because I can. No. Will I because I feel more confident having toad brakes. No. Why? Because best practice safety precautions are proven to reduce vehicular accidents, and I carry precious cargo on board.
Every vehicle manufactured worldwide requires an emergency brake. Shouldn't toads be included?

[Bullitt6283]

Originally Posted by awol50

....it makes it easier for the driver to justify riskier driving because you feel safer....

Originally Posted by awol50

....The perception of risk and feeling safer affects risk taking behavior...

I fully understand your point.


.

[dix39]

I think you're outnumbered awol50, but if it's any consolation I will support much of what you say.

I'm wondering at what point in time did brake systems for toads become available? Did I tow before that, and if so how did we possibly survive it?? And were there others??

There is no argument in my mind that slowing/stopping faster is a good thing, but I also understand that the larger the towing vehicle in relation to the vehicle being towed, the less effect the vehicle being towed will have on stopping distance. I think most lawmakers also understand that, hence the laws that are in effect. I for one, am comfortable with that.

Steve

[BruceDeville]

Originally Posted by awol50

Traffic violations are civil infractions. No jail time for that.
Breakaway occurances are extremely rare. And having your toad screech to a stop, maybe in your traffic lane, but just as easily in the oncoming lane, or just plain not working as intended is hardly reassuring.
Toad brakes are impossible to monitor to verify they actually work the way you think they are or should work.
For lightweight toads pulled by heavy diesel pushers, etc, I think it is just as easy of a decision to forego toad brakes. Slowing down a little, don't tailgate, keep toad weight down and keep RV cargo weight down a little are far better safety measures that actually prevent accidents in all circumstances.
Toad brakes have the same psychological effects on RV drivers as helmets on football players. More risk taking.

I see where you are coming from, most traffic violation under civil penalties, however in severe situations DUI/DWI laws frequently do land you in jail. The same for 30+ over posted speed limit (in USA).

Just nit picking, but wanting to keep it straight, in my opinion of course.

[Bullitt6283]

It seems that every time I see a thread on the forums about toad brakes, the same arguments for/against are expressed.

Everyone has an opinion, and pretty much has their mind made up.

The OP's question got answered in the first couple of posts. Now we're out at post #121.

Time to call it a day....


.

[Divingbiker]

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

It seems that every time I see a thread on the forums about toad brakes, the same arguments for/against are expressed.

Everyone has an opinion, and pretty much has their mind made up.

The OP's question got answered in the first couple of posts. Now we're out at post #121.

Time to call it a day....


.

I think we can all agree that many of the threads/post are repeats. (especially post that say a topic has been discussed enough) With the HUGE number of other topics to read you have the option to click on another thread.......

Everyone should be able to post their two cents. I find the range of opinions interesting.

Post #122

[RossWilliams]

Originally Posted by dix39

I also understand that the larger the towing vehicle in relation to the vehicle being towed, the less effect the vehicle being towed will have on stopping distance. I think most lawmakers also understand that, hence the laws that are in effect.
Steve

Legislators don't generally rely on their own knowledge. These laws were passed based on advice from "traffic safety experts." Of course, those "experts" may be wrong or they may represent interests other than safety. But if you are going to evaluate your technical knowledge, you need to compare it to theirs, not your typical politician.

I am definitely not an expert,. But I understand that the ability to stop is based on how much rubber is on the road. Its hard for me to imagine that doubling that area has less impact than the size of the towing vehicle on stopping distance. And stopping distance is really only one of the issues with towing weight.

I think this is similar to "four wheel drive syndrome". The belief that a four wheel drive vehicle will stop better than a two wheel drive. It won't. They are both four wheel stop.

[dix39]

To each his/her own, at this point I'm thinking a bit like Bullitt6283.

Steve