Community Forums

Chrome · 11-22-2020, 08:23 AM

I have 2 settings on my engine brake on my 400 Cummins. High/Low.
I haven't pulled the toad yet as I'm in the process of getting it all set up.
My question is due to the fact that the engine brake slows the coach down rapidly I would think this would trigger the Patriot brake and apply pressure.
Thinking this could happen, what if I set the brake controller on a low setting and hope this would not apply toad brakes.
My intent with the toad brake control is mostly for panic stops. I realise the benefit of an "air brake actuation", but I didn't go that route.

wolfe10 · 11-22-2020, 08:26 AM

Agree. With an engine compression brake, you will want to set your toad brake controller so that it does not apply the toad brakes unless you are or are close to using your coach's service brake for additional braking.

Said another way, you are correct, if your toad brakes are applied for a two mile long 6% descent where your speed is controlled by your engine brake, you would quickly wear out the toad brakes.

CWSWine · 11-22-2020, 09:03 AM

You can watch the screen that comes with the Patriot II and set the Patriot does not brake during light braking and engine braking but during heavy braking it will activate.

My brake lights come on during engine braking and that problem I had with another brand that works off of tail lights. Those long grades using the engine brakes would over heat the toad brakes.

Gary RVRoamer · 11-22-2020, 02:10 PM

I think this is a non-issue if your toad brake is properly adjusted in the first place. If the exhaust or engine brake is producing enough slow-down (braking action) to trigger a properly adjusted toad brake, then you NEED that extra braking. If the braking action is low to moderate and the sensitivity of the toad brake is set right, the toad's own brakes either won't actually apply to the pads/drums or the pressure is so very light that wear or heat is insignificant.

Most of this worry about exhaust or engine brakes is a holdover from the days when toad brakes had no inertial sensing or only very crude pendulums that gave an all or nothing indication. When the toad brakes came on, they applied fully at whatever their max was, and wear could be an issue on a long grade. Modern inertial systems measure how much the coach is braking and apply toad braking proportionally, so long grades aren't a concern unless you have set the toad brake aggressively.

ArtJoyce · 11-22-2020, 02:19 PM

I agree if the brakes are adjusted correctly it should not matter. The real question is adjusting them since there are not very good instructions for adjusting. I think I have it??

Chrome · 11-23-2020, 12:32 PM

I would think that many of us that have a portable system may have experienced this while towing. The only time it would be noticed if you happened to glance at the readout on the remote controller.
My engine compression brake on "high" slows the coach very well and when approaching off ramps I will only use it on low.
Thanks for all the replies.

Mr_D · 11-23-2020, 12:41 PM

The older non proportional systems are why I started using the Brakemaster 9160 unit. It is fully proportional and only activated when the MH service brakes are used. In 15 - 20 years I haven't seen a reason to change.

NXR · 11-23-2020, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Most of this worry about exhaust or engine brakes is a holdover from the days when toad brakes had no inertial sensing or only very crude pendulums that gave an all or nothing indication. When the toad brakes came on, they applied fully at whatever their max was, and wear could be an issue on a long grade. Modern inertial systems measure how much the coach is braking and apply toad braking proportionally, so long grades aren't a concern unless you have set the toad brake aggressively.

Gary, could a progressive braking system like the Roadmaster Invisibrake still be an issue? If I understand that system correctly, the brakes are applied more and more as a function of time to some preset maximum rather than in proportion to the motorhome braking force.

I guess some systems eventually time out the braking but I've never seen any design numbers for how much they keep increasing braking or for when they time out. Do you know?

Ray