Community Forums

RickO · 08-04-2012, 02:57 PM

I agree there's probably "wriggle room" in the design and that 260# is probably within that margin of wriggle room.

However, my biggest concern in this particular situation would be one of liability. Some savvy lawyer (doing what he's paid to do) would certainly look in to how safe the rig was at the time of the accident and maybe even dig out this thread to show prior knowledge of being over weight.

It would be ugly to have the insurance company turn their back on you because of this. It's kind of like getting one of those non commercial DL's which some states require.

Rick

Shirken3 · 11-29-2012, 08:57 PM

I'm new to all of this so please excuse some basic questions that I have. First question, what is the difference between curb weight, gross vehicle weight and Gross combined vehicle weight. As I wrote in an earlier post I'm looking for a tow vehicle that can be towed behind a Tiffin Phaeton 36 QSH but also has the towing capacity to tow my 3500 lb boat when I need to. I'm considering a GMC Acadia. It has a 5,000 lb towing capacity, which I believe will satisfy towing the boat. The manual says the Acadia has a cub weight of 4676 lbs and a GCVR of 6679 lbs. I believe the towing capability of the Tiffin Phaeton 36 QSH is 10,000 lbs. So I'm assuming the Acadia will work for me as a toad?

Mr_D · 11-29-2012, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shirken3

I'm new to all of this so please excuse some basic questions that I have. First question, what is the difference between curb weight, gross vehicle weight and Gross combined vehicle weight. As I wrote in an earlier post I'm looking for a tow vehicle that can be towed behind a Tiffin Phaeton 36 QSH but also has the towing capacity to tow my 3500 lb boat when I need to. I'm considering a GMC Acadia. It has a 5,000 lb towing capacity, which I believe will satisfy towing the boat. The manual says the Acadia has a cub weight of 4676 lbs and a GCVR of 6679 lbs. I believe the towing capability of the Tiffin Phaeton 36 QSH is 10,000 lbs. So I'm assuming the Acadia will work for me as a toad?

If what you say above is true the Acadia won't pull your boat even if it weighed the curb weight. There's only 2,000#'s of tow rating left between the curb weight and GCVW.
The GVWR or GCVWR is the maximum both the boat and tow vehicle can weigh, including cargo and people in the Acadia and anything in the boat.

xctraveler · 11-30-2012, 02:52 PM

GVWR is the maximum weight of the vehicle alone with all cargo and passengers on board. When you pull onto a scale with all of you in your seats ready for a day on the road that is the maximum the vehicle is designed to safely carry, and stop.
GCWR is the maximum as above with the towed vehicle attached and included in the weight. If you are over the GVWR you need supplemental brakes.

The hitch may be rated for anything, but your maximums are the lower number. Take a test drive in the Acadia and take it to a scale and weigh it will your normal passenger load. The difference between that and any other effects to store in it and the GCWR is how much you can safely tow. The hitch is overrated for the vehicle.

Mixmanbob · 02-07-2013, 11:32 AM

I also have a W22. I know by actual scale weight that I run @ about 20,500, water & fuel tanks full. I just bought a 05 Dodge Dakota that with canopy & full fuel tank weighs 4900. As long as I stay below the GCWR of 26000 I am OK. RIGHT?

ahicks · 02-09-2013, 02:29 PM

Mostly? You would want to know you aren't exceeding any other spec. as well? For instance, if your hitch had a 3500lb capacity? Not saying it does/doesn't. Only that the 26K GCWR isn't necessarily the only concern.

xctraveler · 02-09-2013, 08:54 PM

Another point that I learned the hard way a couple of years ago. If you need a drop hitch to improve the vertical alignment between coach and tow'd you need to derate the total weight your receiver is capable of towing.

I broke the welds holding the receiver to the crossbar towing a 3400 lb car across the Alaska highway - I think the frost heaves near Destruction Bay did them in. By dumb luck I made it to Calgary before realizing the damage. The tech who rebuilt (built from scratch really) my receiver said that with the drop I was using, I should have considered a 2000 lb derate on the receiver. He built the new one to eliminate the need for the drop hitch.

Hudsoner · 02-09-2013, 08:56 PM

I have a similar question. My Hurricane sits on a F53 chassis that allows for a GCWR of 26k lb. MY GVWR is 16 k lb, and my actual weight (we never carry water) is about 14k lb. The addition to the Ford frame is only about 3 feet long, and it looks very well attached (bolts and welding of extra gusset plates. Do to some reason I don't understand, Four Winds decided to pt a 3500 lb hitch underneath it. I would like to tow a car that weights about 4000 lb, but is equipped with a tow brake. What would speak against me exchanging the 3500 lb hitch to a 5000 lb one and weld some extra gusset plates to the connection of the extension?

If one considers that I have some 12 k lb left to reach the GCWR of the chassis, the brakes of the Rv should not care about the extra 200 lb over the GVWR. I believe, the only criteria here would be the hitch and the frame extension concerning their pulling ability.

What do you think?

xctraveler · 02-09-2013, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hudsoner

I have a similar question. My Hurricane sits on a F53 chassis that allows for a GCWR of 26k lb. MY GVWR is 16 k lb, and my actual weight (we never carry water) is about 14k lb. The addition to the Ford frame is only about 3 feet long, and it looks very well attached (bolts and welding of extra gusset plates. Do to some reason I don't understand, Four Winds decided to pt a 3500 lb hitch underneath it. I would like to tow a car that weights about 4000 lb, but is equipped with a tow brake. What would speak against me exchanging the 3500 lb hitch to a 5000 lb one and weld some extra gusset plates to the connection of the extension?

If one considers that I have some 12 k lb left to reach the GCWR of the chassis, the brakes of the Rv should not care about the extra 200 lb over the GVWR. I believe, the only criteria here would be the hitch and the frame extension concerning their pulling ability.

What do you think?

I would start by asking that question of the manufacturer of the coach. They are the ones who decided to derate your towing capability. It may have been to save a few bucks on the hitch or there may be some other reason.

The weight police will not chase you down for exceeding your hitch rating, and so long as you say off back roads and badly broken roads that start the tow'd whipping around you should be fine. With my experience I would not want to do that for a regular diet.

ahicks · 02-10-2013, 06:24 AM

I think when you start to make mods like that, you have, for all practical purposes, become the engineer that signs off on that project? If you're good with that, it should make no difference what others say/think? Trying to hold somebody else responsible if anything should happen not a good plan.

That said, it sounds like you have a good place to start. I would be really careful of the areas you're already concerned about. Many mfg's use the body (floor) of the coach to stiffen/support those frame rail extensions, and it should be the other way around?

Rick 2005 Dolphin 5376 · 02-10-2013, 08:44 AM

If I did and I never do, I wouldn't be broadcasting it here.
The world is sue happy. If a lawyer can find a way to blame you for an accident because you exceeded your limits, he or she will.

Hudsoner · 02-10-2013, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xctraveler

I would start by asking that question of the manufacturer of the coach. They are the ones who decided to derate your towing capability. It may have been to save a few bucks on the hitch or there may be some other reason.

The weight police will not chase you down for exceeding your hitch rating, and so long as you say off back roads and badly broken roads that start the tow'd whipping around you should be fine. With my experience I would not want to do that for a regular diet.

I just would tow the vehicle to Moab and back, all on freeways!

Quote:

Originally Posted by ahicks

I think when you start to make mods like that, you have, for all practical purposes, become the engineer that signs off on that project? If you're good with that, it should make no difference what others say/think? Trying to hold somebody else responsible if anything should happen not a good plan.

That said, it sounds like you have a good place to start. I would be really careful of the areas you're already concerned about. Many mfg's use the body (floor) of the coach to stiffen/support those frame rail extensions, and it should be the other way around?

Four Winds did a good job in that area. The frame extension is rather short and pretty well attached (being an engineer myself, I can judge it somewhat), and I would even improve on their job. The manufacturer was not willing to let me know, why I have that low of a tow rating, and did share any information with me, what could be done to increase it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick 2005 Dolphin 5376

If I did and I never do, I wouldn't be broadcasting it here.
The world is sue happy. If a lawyer can find a way to blame you for an accident because you exceeded your limits, he or she will.

Good information! I have to remember this!

wa8yxm · 02-10-2013, 06:42 PM

I know a man who pulls an SUV on a trailer with that 5,000 hitch on a Workhorse chassis.. So far the only problem he has had was tearing up the tong jack on the trailer pulling into this campground I happen to be parked at (Happened about a half mile from the park) I bottom out on that corner too, or used to when I had a towed.. Back to subject.

I can not recommend exceeding the tow rating, and be aware if you have to use any kind of a drop hitch,, That reduces your towing capacity big time.

But you asked about only 260 pounds. that's roughly 5% over... I can not advise you to exceed the manufacturer's rating, but ... Well...... it's only 5%.

But, heaven forbid you are in a serious accident,, A sharp police officer might just have your rig weighed (I have heard of it happening) and .. Well, over is over, even one pound.

**CLIFFTALL** · 02-11-2013, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

I can not recommend exceeding the tow rating, and be aware if you have to use any kind of a drop hitch,, That reduces your towing capacity big time.

I use a 10" drop down receiver , so this quote got my attention. I called Blue OX this morning and spoke to Paul 800-228-9289 and he said " that was just not so "

Cliff