F53 5000 lb vs 8000 lb towing capacity?

[RVtravelz]

I can’t help but notice that a Bounder 36F and a Fortis 34MB have an 8000 lb towing capacity.
How is it that other 26000 lb GVWR F53 chassis motorhomes only have a 5000 lb tow rating with the same chassis and same hitch?

[l1v3fr33ord1]

RVtravelz-

Towing "capacity" should always be taken with one or more grains of salt.

Using the 2020 Bounder 36F as an example, according to the brochure (link here):

GAWR (front): 9,000 pounds
GAWR (rear): 15,500 pounds
GVWR: 26,000 pounds
GCWR: 30,000 pounds
Tow hitch rating, horizontal: 8,000 pounds
Tow hitch rating, vertical: 800 pounds

The amount you can flat tow and stay within the manufacturer's ratings is the lower of:

1) GCWR minus actual coach weight, or
2) Tow hitch rating, horizontal

You do not know the coach weight until the manufacturer affixes the sticker to a specific coach. If you assume the coach is fully-loaded, that is, at GVWR, then the amount you can flat tow and stay within the manufacturer's ratings is 4,000 pounds (GCWR minus GVWR), which is a far cry from the tow hitch horizontal rating.

This is why most manufacturer's will install a hitch rated for 5,000 pounds (horizontal) on a chassis with a GCWR of 26,000 pounds.

The one bright spot for that 8,000-pound hitch is for people who tow a trailer. A trailer requires tongue weight to track stably behind the tow vehicle. A rule of thumb is 10 to 15 percent of the loaded trailer weight. If the trailer is loaded to 5,000 pounds, at 15 percent the tongue is 750 pounds. That is within the 800 pounds vertical listed by Fleetwood. All things being equal (and no overloading of the rear axle- there's that pesky need to weigh the coach, again), you could tow a 5,000-pound trailer-plus-load behind a 2020 Bounder 36F with a 15 percent tongue weight and be within the manufacturer's ratings- if the coach was loaded to 25,000 pounds or less. If the coach was loaded to its GVWR of 26,000 pounds, you could only tow a trailer-plus-load of 4,000 pounds and be within the manufacturer's ratings.

I can't speak to the ratings for the Fortis.

My advice for folks looking to tow more than 5,000 pounds behind a late-model gas coach is to start by looking at those built on the Ford E-450 van chassis. Some models are rated for a bona-fide 7,500 pounds capacity.

[RVtravelz]

Yes, I understand GVWR vs the GCVWR. What I’m asking is, if the chassis and hitch and gear ratio are all the same then why the 3000 lb difference?
The 22000 lb chassis Fortis has a GVWR of 26000 lb just like all other 22000 lb F53 chassis coaches. Setting that aside… it has 3000 lb more towing capacity? Im trying to find the difference in the capability of the chassis. I suspect this is a paper shell game.

[D20]

I think they use the 8000 lb hitch because it is actually possible to be able to tow a little over 5,000 lbs with these rigs while staying under the GCWR. But you will certainly not be able to tow 8,000 lbs without exceeding the GCWR.

Here is a run down of the numbers for the 36F: https://youtu.be/JmspiN2hD6I

[RVtravelz]

Check this yellow label out…

[TXiceman]

As Mark (l1v3fr33ord1) pointed out, the only true way to know how much you can tow is to start by weighing the coach. The manufactures are much like accountants in that they can juggle the number to come out 5000 or 8000 lb and justify the answer.

The actual rating on the hitch can also effect the rating. Get down on the ground and look for the sticker on the hitch receiver for a maximum rating. It may be limited to 5000 or 8000 Lb. But note that this is the maximum, provided you are not exceeding a of the other chassis limits.

Ken

[D20]

Originally Posted by RVtravelz

Check this yellow label out…

You could tow about 5300 lbs when loaded up for a trip according to those stickers. I imagine that since it is possible to tow greater than 5000 lbs and remain under the GCWR, they installed the next size hitch up from 5000 lb, which apparently is a 8,000 lb hitch. But it is not possible to tow 8,000 lbs.

[RVtravelz]

Hitch is the same part number. Only the numbers say 8000 / 800 instead of 5000 / 500.
This is kind of like how the 2020 F350 SuperDuty pickups gained more capability with the same previous chassis.
So, I am wondering if a late model or same year 5000 lb tow capacity rated F53 is actually more capable that what it shows to be on paper? I don’t mean another 3000 lbs but something more than 5000 lbs.
I just don’t understand the huge 3000 lb difference.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

RVtravelz-

Specs for the 2021 Ford F-53 are here. A note on page 3 is:

Gross axle weight rating is determined by the rated capacity of the minimum component of the axle system (axle, springs, wheels, tires) of a specific vehicle. Front and rear GAWRs will, in all cases, sum to a number equal to or greater than the GVWR for the particular vehicle. Maximum loaded vehicle (including passengers, equipment and payload) cannot exceed the GVW rating or GAWR (front or rear).

If the motorhome manufacturer beefs up the structure and puts on a higher-rated hitch he's still stuck with Ford's GVWR, GCWR and GAWRs.

As far as I know.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

If the motorhome manufacturer beefs up the structure and puts on a higher-rated hitch he's still stuck with Ford's GVWR, GCWR and GAWRs.

As far as I know.

Yup. And the F-53 V10 and V8 chassis GVWR and GCWR numbers are identical.

Ray

[RVtravelz]

Originally Posted by NXR

Yup. And the F-53 V10 and V8 chassis GVWR and GCWR numbers are identical.

Ray

Which begs the question… where are they coming up with another 3000 lbs for towing? … and only on some 22k lb chassis but not all? I don’t get it.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

RVtravelz-

The simple answer is: It's a marketing ploy.

Putting a hitch that's rated 10,000 pounds on a coach that can (nominally) tow 4,000 pounds means the coach can tow... 4,000 pounds. Same for an 8,000-pound-rated hitch. They waste their money, and your time.

[l1v3fr33ord1]

Now, in reference to that Fortis sticker:

GCWR 26,000
GVWR 22,000
OCCC 3,351

Note: OCCC is empty coach, plus full propane. No water, fuel, people, etc.

If you could go anywhere without a driver or gasoline:

GCWR - GVWR 4,000
OCCC 3,351
Total 7,351

You can "tow" 7,351 pounds. Horizontally, that is. If you tow a trailer, with 15 percent on the tongue, you can tow

7351 / 1.15 = 6,390 pounds

But, you weigh 200 pounds, and a half-tank of gas weighs 225 pounds, so

Horizontally: 7351 - 200 - 225 = 6,926
Trailer: 6390 - 200 - 225 = 5,965

These are the numbers if you use your coach as a tow vehicle. If you have other stuff in it you need to account for its weight. Also, you must stay below the axle ratings.

Now, you might not have noticed a sleight-of-hand in the above. I have assumed it is OK to "borrow" OCCC from the coach and "give" it to the towed (item), as long as you stay below the ratings. The coach manufacturer is silent on this, at least as far as the sticker goes.

Ford, though, bases its design on GVWR and GCWR, including the braking system on the chassis (and, in its notes saying that the GCWR assumes the towed has its own braking system, suitable to stop its own weight). Once you step beyond the 4,000 pounds they specify, you're in a grey zone.

There are plenty of folks on iRV2 who live within that zone. The smart ones know their coach and towed (item) weights, including the loads on each axle. The wise ones don't get greedy in their "borrowing." The really wise ones buy a coach capable of towing without having to push the limits, or "borrow" at all.

[RVtravelz]

From the research that I have done…
You can have two F53 chassis motorhomes sitting side by side.
Unit 1 and unit 2 both have identical 22k lb GVWR and 26k lb GCWR.
Yet unit 1 has a tow rating of 5000 lbs and unit 2 has a tow rating of 8000 lbs with the same part number hitch.
Does the guy that prints out the yellow sticker just pick and choose or maybe it’s that every 10th unit gets a bigger number. It’s just weird.