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Old 07-11-2020, 05:29 AM   #1
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Full Size PU vs. Colorado size PU as Toad

We just signed for Newmar 4037 with the Cummins 400hp, 1250 ft lbs of torque with a tag axel. We do not have any previous experience towing with an RV. I would like opinions on whether it is worth my while for the weight savings to get a smaller PU to tow. I have a Ram 1500 extended cab 4x4 PU now that I love. Do you think there would be a noticeable difference with the power of this RV to get a smaller truck or will this power be fine with the full size PU? Thanks
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:00 AM   #2
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I have been towing our F150 around for 6 years now and truthfully hardly ever know it's back there except on steeper grades where we slow down a little.
What I really love is the Air Force One proportional braking system whereas you don't even feel the truck when slowing down/stopping.
I considered getting a mid size truck but after finding out they're only 500+ or so lbs lighter and $40000+ I decided to keep what we have.

Bob
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:05 AM   #3
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That's the kind of info I was looking fo so thanks for the reply!
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Old 07-11-2020, 07:32 AM   #4
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Love my Ram, towed a Ranger years back. No reason to go small.
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:09 AM   #5
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I towed a Colorado and now a Sierra. The only reason I'd tow a Colorado is to have a smaller truck to park in malls & stores. You won't notice a difference towing.
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:35 AM   #6
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Tow your Ram. There would be no noticeable difference to the coach. I've towed a 6400# Avalanche since our first one of four in 2002. It's the best toad we have ever had. Rides like a car, 4 wheel drive for bad roads or some mild off roading, higher seating position for better visibility and comfort, plus cargo space to hauls things. Your Ram would provide the same. Look at the M&G toad braking system before you decide on an aux brake. It's the best system I have found.
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:52 AM   #7
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I tow a F-150, before thar a Ranger. No significant difference in towing.
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Old 07-11-2020, 09:25 AM   #8
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Hereís the answer that you donít want to hear.

A coach with a 44,000 lb GVWR and a 400hp ISL is an underpowered coach. With either toad youíll be up to 50K lbs. A 500-1000 lb difference between trucks may be noticeable on some grades, but it wonít be a game changer. The coach will get you to your destination.

If youíre concerned about having adequate power, you may want to consider a similar coach with more horsepower and torque.

We have the 400hp ISL in a non-tag coach with a GVWR of 33K, operating weight is ~30K and tow a ~5500 lb toad. Power is adequate.
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Old 07-11-2020, 10:33 AM   #9
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I doubt very much that your coach will ever weigh 44,000#. My best guess is that it will be near 38,500-39,000# loaded for the road. My 43' Bus with the 450 ISL and 150 gallon fuel tank is right at 40,000# loaded. (GVWR is 51600) Your Ram is probably 5500-5700# for a total weight of 44-45,000#. 1hp per 100# is considered an ideal power to weight ratio. At your weight, you will be 10% under ideal. That will only be noticable climbing a long mountain grade. You will be less than 5 mph slower than if you had an ideal 450 ISL. I have been at 52,000 with an enclosed trailer with no problem going over the 11,000' pass west of Denver. Enjoy your new coach.
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Old 07-11-2020, 01:41 PM   #10
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We never know how another owner will load their coach. An estimated 60% of RVís are overweight.

Few owners would admit that their coach is underpowered. Fewer still would ever say that their coach has more than enough or too much power. Iím operating a coach, with the same engine as the OP, that weighs ~10K lbs less than their proposed set up. I wouldnít want any less power.

The OP also stated that they have no experience towing with an RV. They wonít know the difference between a pleasant driving experience and a not so pleasant experience. A coach thatís 10% underpowered wonít be as enjoyable to drive as one that has some power in reserve. Thatís something to consider when purchasing a new rig.
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:58 PM   #11
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Each person has their own idea as to what is enjoyable to them while traveling in their motorhome As long as I can cruise comfortably at 62-65 and able to get over the mountains, I'm enjoying the ride. Would I like 600 hp?? Yes that would be nice. Do I need it and would I travel any faster? No. My son's Newell weighs in at 60,000# plus a 15,000# enclosed trailer puts him at 75,000# or 25% underpowered with his 605 Cummins. He travels the same roads I do and we get there at the same time. The only place a higher HP/WT ratio helps is acceleration and holding a higher speed on long inclines. Once the OP gets acclimated to his new coach, he will enjoy the improved ride of the tag and extra load capacity it provides over a non tag. Giving up a little performance is a small price to pay those benefits.
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Old 07-11-2020, 04:55 PM   #12
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^^^That may be true. The point here is to provide the OP with as much knowledge as possible so they can make an informed decision before jumping head first into this new experience.

They may be happy. They may learn to be happy. They may never be happy.

We may never know.
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Old 07-11-2020, 10:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVPioneer View Post
^^^That may be true. The point here is to provide the OP with as much knowledge as possible so they can make an informed decision before jumping head first into this new experience.

They may be happy. They may learn to be happy. They may never be happy.

We may never know.
Well said.....often people will regurgitate the same stuff over and over until some think it's true. You'll know the difference between a 4600 pound Colorado/Canyon and a 6100 pound full size truck. Over the years, I've towed a Dodge Dakota 4 door, Nissan Frontier 4 door, a Chevrolet Silverado 4 door, a GMC Canyon 4 door and now a Ford Raptor 4 door. The Dakota, Frontier and Silverado I all towed behind my 2005 Monaco Diplomat that had a 400 ISL and only weighed in at 32K. It towed all three trucks up any grade out west at 55+mph.

When I moved up to a 2014 Newmar Dutch Star at 38K pounds and a tag axle, that extra 6K made a huge difference and slowed me down substantially on the grades, as much as 38 - 45 mph max, versus the 55+mph. I later moved to a 42K 2019 Dutch Star and felt the extra 4K in weight. The coach did okay towing my Canyon at 4600 pounds and was not too noticeable on the grades, just during acceleration. I'm now towing a 6100 pound Ford Raptor, it's affecting acceleration and fuel mileage, about .5 mpg. I can also feel the additional 1500 pounds. As you get heavier, it pulls harder on the frame and chassis, enough that you can feel it. And yes, I'm now close to 50K.

Your 4037 Ventana with the 400 ISL will tow a full size truck, but you'll feel a difference between that and the smaller trucks. I knew the Raptor was going to slow me down some more and hurt mileage, but I knew that going in. The only time I can say that I really didn't feel a difference was when we towed a 2014 CRV cross country. It was easy to tow, that's how I know the difference between towing something lightweight and a truck.
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Old 07-12-2020, 03:39 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don View Post
Well said.....often people will regurgitate the same stuff over and over until some think it's true. You'll know the difference between a 4600 pound Colorado/Canyon and a 6100 pound full size truck. Over the years, I've towed a Dodge Dakota 4 door, Nissan Frontier 4 door, a Chevrolet Silverado 4 door, a GMC Canyon 4 door and now a Ford Raptor 4 door. The Dakota, Frontier and Silverado I all towed behind my 2005 Monaco Diplomat that had a 400 ISL and only weighed in at 32K. It towed all three trucks up any grade out west at 55+mph.

When I moved up to a 2014 Newmar Dutch Star at 38K pounds and a tag axle, that extra 6K made a huge difference and slowed me down substantially on the grades, as much as 38 - 45 mph max, versus the 55+mph. I later moved to a 42K 2019 Dutch Star and felt the extra 4K in weight. The coach did okay towing my Canyon at 4600 pounds and was not too noticeable on the grades, just during acceleration. I'm now towing a 6100 pound Ford Raptor, it's affecting acceleration and fuel mileage, about .5 mpg. I can also feel the additional 1500 pounds. As you get heavier, it pulls harder on the frame and chassis, enough that you can feel it. And yes, I'm now close to 50K.

Your 4037 Ventana with the 400 ISL will tow a full size truck, but you'll feel a difference between that and the smaller trucks. I knew the Raptor was going to slow me down some more and hurt mileage, but I knew that going in. The only time I can say that I really didn't feel a difference was when we towed a 2014 CRV cross country. It was easy to tow, that's how I know the difference between towing something lightweight and a truck.
Don,

Being new to driving a full size coach and towing a vehicle that is the kind of info I need. Since I am planning longer trips out west hunting and fishing it sounds like having a dedicated Toad in a mid size pickup would be the way to go. If I were making shorter trips or staying in the east on interstates then the Ram would probably suffice. Thanks very much for everyone for chiming in and helping!
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