Jeep GRAND Cherokee death wobble!

[BobGed]

Originally Posted by Boomer

Confusing thread, however, we just ordered a Wrangler Unlimited Sahara JL, do I need to be on the look out for 'death wobble' or not.

No you do not need to worry. You have power assisted hydraulic steering.

[lass]

Originally Posted by BobGed

No you do not need to worry. You have power assisted hydraulic steering.

I agree that we do not have to worry about a JL wobble and have stated that repeatedly on multiple threads. I traded a 2017 GC Summit for the a 2018 JL Rubicon and don’t expect a wobble. The only debate is with the Mopar RV towing harness which hasn’t even been release yet. Some of the information released says that it will tie into the EPS. Other details say it will not.

There is no reason for this debate to continue on a thread that was started about the Grand Cherokee.

[lass]

Back to the Grand Cherokee wobble that we have been discussing for the past year. After 50 email and phone calls to FCA, our contacts have gone cold. I have recently found that the only way to get a response is to send an email directly to the Jeep CEO.

So if anyone is still concerned about the wobble and wants to get involved, you can send a summary of your problem direct to the email below.

mike.manley@fcagroup.com

[H60DRVR]

Originally Posted by lass

Back to the Grand Cherokee wobble that we have been discussing for the past year. After 50 email and phone calls to FCA, our contacts have gone cold. I have recently found that the only way to get a response is to send an email directly to the Jeep CEO.

So if anyone is still concerned about the wobble and wants to get involved, you can send a summary of your problem direct to the email below.

mike.manley@fcagroup.com

This is my first post to this thread following a similar incident last week. I experienced the Death Wobble with my 2017 Grand Cherokee in tow behind a new RV. It was terrifying - especially for my wife. I thought something was wrong with the MH until I looked in the rear camera. The GC was resonating at an ever increasing rate. I did what was natural and came to a stop - on a shoulder of a busy highway. Like everyone else it occurred after a sharp turn (left) from a stop. It happened one more time making a sharp right hand turn from a stop.
At home later that day I began a search on IRV2 to see if anyone else had experienced the same condition. To my surprise I found this thread and several others. I read this thread from beginning to end and learned that Lass has done a lot ground work raising this issue through the petition & FCA. Lass provided the CEO's, Mr. Manley, contact information. I wrote a very detailed and respectable email to Mr. Manley describing our experience with the GC. The next morning I was contacted through email by his executive assistant wanting more information. The information was provided and I was contacted the following day (phone) by his Executive Referral Manager, Mrs. Regina Knox. She listened to my explanation and ask a lot of questions. She initiated a file # and said she would be in touch soon.
I ask that those who have experienced this wobble with their GRAND Cherokee send an email to Mr. Manley as well. The more complaints the CEO hears from the faster this issue will get resolved. Below is his contact info again (thanks Lass):

mike.manley@fcagroup.com

[rorr1821]

My Jeep Grand Cherokee Trailhawk model experiences the “Death Wobble” about 3 months ago and I dismissed it as a hole in road causing the wheel to turn wrong. However it occurred today on a smooth road making a left turn from a ramp exit onto a Main Street. I called my Dealer today and the service manger looked through all the tech bulletins for my VIN and found nothing. He was aware of this condition in the Jeep Cherokee but had no information for the the Grand Cherokee. I just sent an email to the address provided by another member.

Has anyone gotten a reply from their email sent to Jeep? As I understand both Jeep models have electric power steering so it should be no surprise they both have the same “Death Wobble” issue.

[Deek]

For what it's worth, I have the same issue, albeit with a variation on the theme.

I owned a 2015 Grand Cherokee Summit which I towed with my 2015 Dutch Star 4369 for the past three and a half years. No wobbles, no tires binding, no pinched left (or right) turns -- no hiccups at all.

My Summit replaced three pre-2015 C-RV's that, while super, all ended up having transmission issues (most likely due to me not abiding by the Honda Owner's Manual-recommended 65 mph speed limit). I was happy with the Hondas till I wasn't. But I was in love with the Summit -- from the moment I bought it until mid December, three and a half years later, when I traded it.

As a tow vehicle, it was the best and easiest two car to deal with that I ever had. So much easier to connect and disconnect as tow vehicle, so many creature comforts, smooth, quiet and powerful on the road, truly wonderful as a daily driver and tow vehicle -- simply a joy to own. Hands down, the single best SUV I have ever owned -- and knowing what a car nut I am, that is saying a lot!

So it was that with 67,000 miles plus, I decided in December it was time for a new tow vehicle. As I deliberated on what to get, I kept coming back to the Summit. Wasn't thrilled with having to pay the price for sure, but with all you get and how masterful the car is on the road as it rides with such good behavior behind the coach, I decided that there really was no other choice.

I decided that I liked the wheels on the 2018 model better than the wheels on the 2019 model, so in mid-December I set out to locate a new '18. I found just what I wanted about 100 miles from my home. I made clear to dealer that I would be towing the new Summit with my coach and was told that it would operate the same way as my 2015 Summit. Great! I made a killer deal on this last year model that they wanted to get off their floor plan and I pulled the trigger. I was ... happy, happy, happy.

And then .... getting ready to figure out iRV2 members' thoughts on the current best tow plate and supplemental brake products before investing in that expense .... I come across this thread! OMG! Man, oh man, did I get stopped in my tracks.

As so many of us have found here, the new Summit being just like the old good Summit was not to be so. The EPS beginning in 2016 is so different than what we had without knowing it in 2015. The 2015 worked perfectly but not those made later. I now find out!

So what to do with the new Summit? Not sure. Thankfully, I have not spent the money having the new tow equipment installed. But ... I don't want to do what Lass had to do and get rid of the Summit if I really don't have to.

So what I did is what this Thread recommended -- I prepared and sent a two page email to Mike Manley, new CEO of FCA. I laid out several things that have been posted here -- (1) what we now know of the EPS problem and why and how we understand it originates; (2) how FCA has known about this via the Cherokee issue and its fix from them already; (3) how FCA has been directly told that we also have a Grand Cherokee issue of the same magnitude yet don't seem to have an FCA response for it yet; (4) how this problem will affect motor home folks and the motoring public if not resolved properly as soon as possible; (5) how this issue will negatively impact the value of affected Jeep products and ultimate resale if not fixed; and (6) how, as an important safety issue, it will directly impact the Jeep brand if not dealt with expeditiously and seriously to the point of resolution.

I have no idea as I write this what, if any, response I will get from FCA, but if past discussion is relevant, a message to Mike Manley should get attention.

I pointed out that my own deadline to deal with this is mid April when I take my coach to Freightliner for annual service and will need a final decision on a set up tow car. I am hoping I have a response that resolves it for me much earlier.

I will be sure to post here if and when I hear back from FCA.

Deek

[rpasetto]

@Deek, Sorry to hear of your dilemma. The signature page still says '15 GC Summit, so on the slight chance you still have it and have not taken delivery on the '18 yet, I recommend you stop the deal.

OTOH if you already have the 2018 you should know that FCA took about two years to come up with a solution to the KL Cherokee wobble issue, and a somewhat kludge-y one at that. In fact we were thinking of trading out '15 KL for a GC until I saw this thread.

FCA seem to be dragging their feet on a fix, however. I hope you get a resolution. Safe travels.

[Deek]

Originally Posted by rpasetto

@Deek, Sorry to hear of your dilemma. The signature page still says '15 GC Summit, so on the slight chance you still have it and have not taken delivery on the '18 yet, I recommend you stop the deal.

OTOH if you already have the 2018 you should know that FCA took about two years to come up with a solution to the KL Cherokee wobble issue, and a somewhat kludge-y one at that. In fact we were thinking of trading out '15 KL for a GC until I saw this thread.

FCA seem to be dragging their feet on a fix, however. I hope you get a resolution. Safe travels.

Hey, Rick --

Many thanks for your response -- and, by the way, thanks for all the hard slogging work you have done on this issue along the way -- I have followed the threads about this (Cherokee and Grand Cherokee) all the way through (a LOT of reading and hard thinking about all of it for sure!) and it is crystal clear that you have been a great leader in helping us all to understand the issue and figure out what to do about it.

No, as you can imagine, I was not able to stop the sale -- having had the 2015 Summit, knowing how good the car was with the coach, getting the assurance I did from the dealer on the new one that it would be the same operation as the '15 and being wow'd by the end of season deal, I just pulled the trigger and jumped in with both feet. And I do LOVE the car. Which is exactly why I want to do all I can to be able to use it without the risk of the "death wobble" and remain the happy camper I was with my '15.

Do not know how this will work out and am very mindful of what you say about getting FCA's attention after so many talented folks (e.g., Lass) appear to have been ignored to date.

I have a small "in" with Mike Manley as I have a good friend from my Newmar group who was very close with the former CEO of FCA, Sergio Marchionne (who unexpectedly and suddenly passed away last year, promoting Manley, former head of Jeep / Ram to the CEO position with FCA). My buddy worked directly with Marchionne as a big wheel employee of one of the Fiat group units -- my buddy tells me that the Summit was one of Marchionne's most prized babies as he ran Fiat after it acquired Chrysler / Jeep. I don't know if Manley worked with my pal directly, but I strongly suspect he knew him or knew of him through Marchionne and I am going to do all I can to get as much mileage out of this connection as possible.

My hope is simply that Manley will look at this himself and put someone good on it who will be able to get some action. And don't forget -- before becoming FCA CEO, Manley was in charge of Jeep -- he absolutely knows this product and it will have an up front position on his radar. His work during the years before he became FCA CEO put him into the CEO atmosphere precisely because he did so much good work to promote Jeep and make it the power house it is. It would be nice to think he will have an interest in Grand Cherokee owners facing this problem.

That being said, I am certainly not at all sure how this plane will end up as it comes in for a landing. As your wonderful President says ... "We'll see".

I will most likely keep the Summit no matter what happens. If I have to -- that is if FCA offers no help -- I will most likely bite the bullet and get another tow vehicle and hang on to the Summit at least for the time being.
I am presently thinking of a new 2019 VW Jetta S stick shift which I can buy for about 17,000 out the door. It would be a good choice I believe.

Best case for me if FCA isn't close to a fix is to see if FCA will buy back my Summit and put me into another user-friendly Jeep product (loaded JL Sahara Unlimited perhaps) or simply buy back my Summit. I kind of doubt this will be a likely outcome, but who knows. I pointed out in my note to Manley that there is a lot riding on this for Jeep as this is a hot topic with FMCA and on iRV2 and so many motor home folks use Jeep products -- so the conclusion has to be that the good will of resolving this will be a real feather in FCA's cap for future Jeep business from motor home folks. I told him I would certainly sing FCA's praises if they roll up their sleeves to resolve my dilemma so as to keep me from having to take a big financial loss by needing to get a new tow vehicle while still owing the Summit (which I specifically bought to tow behind my coach).

Again ... we'll see. In the meantime, thanks again for your excellent work and explanation of how this goes wrong for us with the EPS. I did a lot of learning from your terrific work up. You do the Forum proud.

Deek

[Scottybdivin]

Has this issue only been with the Chrokee and GC but not the Wrangler line? I am awaiting the arrival of the 3.0L turbo diesel in the Wrangler but also have interest in the 19 GC.

[enjoyrv]

I have a 2014 GC Summit with no wobble issues. Thinking of trading for 2018 or 2019 Dodge Durango w V8 AWD. So do late model Durango’s have same issues or is this just a Jeep GC late model issue?

[RVPioneer]

Originally Posted by enjoyrv

I have a 2014 GC Summit with no wobble issues. Thinking of trading for 2018 or 2019 Dodge Durango w V8 AWD. So do late model Durango’s have same issues or is this just a Jeep GC late model issue?

First, don’t believe anything the dealer tells you.
Second, if it has EPS it could have the same problem. (Introduced on Jeep 2016MY)
Third, you’ll be trading your 28mpg car for a 14mpg car.
Fourth, make sure it’s flat towable.

[enjoyrv]

Eco diesel in GC so 30 mph is right. But need 6-7 passengers seating. I am very familiar with what can be flat towed. Agree with you fully. Thanks.

[rpasetto]

Originally Posted by Scottybdivin

Has this issue only been with the Chrokee and GC but not the Wrangler line? I am awaiting the arrival of the 3.0L turbo diesel in the Wrangler but also have interest in the 19 GC.

Wranglers have hydraulic PS, up to '18 anyway. Any 'EPS' vehicle, with no hydraulics, doesn't have the vibration-damping effect which hydraulic systems naturally provide. (kind of like a shock absorber).

There are other factors however, such as geometry of the design, tolerances of components, natural vibration frequencies of components; all can affect the wobble tendency. What Jeep did with the KL (Cherokee) wobble, was to turn it's EPS on while being towed. Software in that EPS computer has an algorithm which detects the wobble and activates forces to counter it. I have no idea why Jeep hasn't done the same with the GC.

[FLSteve]

Originally Posted by Scottybdivin

Has this issue only been with the Chrokee and GC but not the Wrangler line? I am awaiting the arrival of the 3.0L turbo diesel in the Wrangler but also have interest in the 19 GC.

I know I am not suppose to be posting JL stuff on this thread but since the question was asked thought I would try and answer it.

Scottybdivin - I have had "zero" issues with my 2018 JL. Have about 5,000 miles of towing with it under my belt. And here is a thread that has lots of JL information if you are interested.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/new-j...ml#post3987056

FLSteve