Lockout hubs on Toads ?

[gordofuchs]

I am curious as to why someone doesn't offer lockout hubs for toad vehicles. Back in the old days they made manual locking hubs for the front drive train on four wheel drive vehicles. If they did it then why couldn't they do it for any drive axel on a toad ?

Gordon Fuchs
Cleveland, Ohio

[nosticks]

No demand.

[Bob1340]

That would be a big deal. Reliable locking hubs such as 4X4 vehicles used to have used full floating hubs. No lightweight vehicles I know of have full floating hubs. Even many newer heavy duty 3/4 and 1 ton trucks don't use them any longer. The other issue with a rear locking hub would be it'd add one more failure point in the drivetrain. That hub could fail. The only vehicles I have ever seen with rear locking hubs were not actually a Warn type hub like you see on older Jeeps but rather a female spline hub cap for the rear full float rear axle that is removed and reversed. That would be a difficult and messy procedure to perform to tow.
Jeep tidbit----Back in the day of the CJ Jeeps virtually all of them had Warn hubs up front. But, Jeep did not put these on at the factory. As soon as the Jeeps came to the dealer they were installed. My 1977 CJ-5 had all of it's options mounted at the dealer. Hubs, rear seat, and soft top. What is interesting is in older CJ Jeep advertising many times you see Warn hubs on them. But they were not factory. International Scouts did come from the factory with Warn hubs, but instead of having the Warn logo they had the IH logo. Collector items.

[MSHappyCampers]

Hi Gordon! Welcome to IRV2! We're sure glad you joined the gang!

Good luck, happy trails, and God bless!

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by gordofuchs

I am curious as to why someone doesn't offer lockout hubs for toad vehicles. Back in the old days they made manual locking hubs for the front drive train on four wheel drive vehicles. If they did it then why couldn't they do it for any drive axel on a toad ?

Gordon Fuchs
Cleveland, Ohio

As has been stated, it's another potential failure point for the toad. Waaaaaaaaaaay back when all us in our Jeep group were driving, off roading and towing "CJ" jeeps, many of us installed Warn or, Superwinch locking hubs in the rear of our Jeeps. You see, the CJ models were never really intended or meant to be flat towed. Yes, they had/have a true neutral but, most of the transfer cases that came with those, had improper oiling when being flat towed so, rather than grenade a transfer case, we just installed locking/un locking hubs on the rear axle.

Then, when prepping for towing, you just unlocked the hubs and, towed 'till your hearts content. But, the problem was, driving a Jeep, on the PAVEMENT with those hubs was, well, very short lived. Those hubs were not designed to be torchered, day to day, on pavement. They didn't last.

So, to answer your question, first off, as has been stated, prep for those hubs must be taken prior to the install of them. And that means "full floating axles". I won't go into what all that means. Your idea is a noble thought for sure. But, the cost to set the cars or, trucks or whatever vehicle you have in mind, up for those hubs, would be to cost prohibitive. Especially since you take the number of folks that purchase a vehicle SPECIFICALLY for flat towing vs the ones that don't, and you'd see that the factories would have lots of vehicles running around with lockable hubs that would never, ever be used for what they're intended for.
Scott

[Ivylog]

I ASSUMED that a Nisson Pathfinder with a manual transfer control would be towable 4 down...NO. Put locking hubs on the front and picked the back axle off the ground.

[RKins]

Originally Posted by Bob1340

International Scouts did come from the factory with Warn hubs, but instead of having the Warn logo they had the IH logo. Collector items.

This is a great idea but let me add a bit of info.
I bought a '63 Intl Scout - the first year of the Scout (80A). I bought it in '79.
I used to take it 4-wheeling a lot out the El Paso area of TX and I broke a lot of stuff, mainly because this was the first year of the Scout and they learned from that and beefed everything up on the 2nd year. It had Warn hubs on the front (not sure I saw any branding on it though) - it was a low profile hub.

One time I was out 40 miles from home with some buddies and on the way out of the 4-wheeling area I went over a small hump and a small but important shaft in the rear end gears split sometime before this and at this point decided to slide apart and chew up the carrier and the rear end in the process. All of a sudden no traction and still 30+ miles from home and still 10 miles off road. It dawned on me that I had front wheel drive if I put the transfer case into 4WD! I removed the rear drive shaft, locked the hubs and off we went - big ole smile on our faces. Made it to the main road and off we went. About 5 miles into the trip all of a sudden I had no drive..... I pulled off the road and looked at the passenger side hub and the part that you twist to lock the hub was MISSING????
I walked back along the road and actually found the piece on the side of the road and I managed to get it back in the hub and duct taped it in place. That got us home. The instructions (I think) were to not drive the Scout in low range on the hard road and not drive it faster than like 30 with the front hubs locked - I don't think I was flying down the road but probably was doing more than 30.
Long story but the drift is I never expected the twist part of the locking hub to fall out and I bet you wouldn't either. Not sure I would want a locking hub on my rear or drive wheels while towing. Stuff fails.
BTW, I sent the hubs in for rework, they said these are obsolete and sent reconditioned "new style higher profile" hubs for like $40. Sweet.

[RKins]

Originally Posted by Ivylog

I ASSUMED that a Nisson Pathfinder with a manual transfer control would be towable 4 down...NO. Put locking hubs on the front and picked the back axle off the ground.

Do you raise it any higher than that? What happens if the rear wheels hit the ground on a hump or going into a fuel station? Or do you leave it in transfer N?

[Ivylog]

Originally Posted by RKins

Do you raise it any higher than that? What happens if the rear wheels hit the ground on a hump or going into a fuel station? Or do you leave it in transfer N?

Not any higher, tranny in N, and parking brake on (breakaway brakes). Yes, on some dips the rear tires hit and if hard enough they turn.

[NevadaNick]

Locking hubs have been installed on the rear of Jeeps in the past.

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

Locking hubs have been installed on the rear of Jeeps in the past.

May I ask WHAT YEAR/MAKE/MODELS of Jeeps are you referring to? We've owned, modified, and towed 9 different Jeep Wranglers over a 35 year period and, that started in '84 with a CJ and, there were no hubs factory installed on the REAR of any of the ones we had or, anyone we ran with waaaaay back then. We only did it for towing purposes.
Scott

[RadioRadio]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

Locking hubs have been installed on the rear of Jeeps in the past.

I’ve seen them in magazines for sure. Google is your friend, keeps you from being wrong.

[Bob1340]

Originally Posted by NevadaNick

Locking hubs have been installed on the rear of Jeeps in the past.

As I said above, folks have put locking hubs on the rear. I once saw a mid 70's CJ-7 with the same hubs as on the front. He had converted to a full floater Ford 9" rear (and front) axle. But those Warn hubs won't stand up to the brutality of day to day driving.



I have seen a number of Jeeps that have converted to full float axles with rear "flippable" hub caps. One side is just smooth and the other side has an female bore with splines for the axle to sit in. The idea here is, if you should break an axle while on the trail you can simply remove the hub cap, pull or replace the broke axle shaft, and put the cap back in. A normal axle has splines on one end to go into the side gears of the diff and the outside end has an integrated hub cap to bolt to the hub.



Here is a good video that explains full float hubs for Jeeps. To my knowledge this is the only outfit that makes both front and rear full floaters for the stock JK axles. They don't offer a disconnect hub for the rear but I am guessing you can get a axle/hub cap kit as I described above.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...b-iae4vDC-zYhd

[FIRE UP]

Originally Posted by Bob1340

As I said above, folks have put locking hubs on the rear. I once saw a mid 70's CJ-7 with the same hubs as on the front. He had converted to a full floater Ford 9" rear (and front) axle. But those Warn hubs won't stand up to the brutality of day to day driving.



I have seen a number of Jeeps that have converted to full float axles with rear "flippable" hub caps. One side is just smooth and the other side has an female bore with splines for the axle to sit in. The idea here is, if you should break an axle while on the trail you can simply remove the hub cap, pull or replace the broke axle shaft, and put the cap back in. A normal axle has splines on one end to go into the side gears of the diff and the outside end has an integrated hub cap to bolt to the hub.



Here is a good video that explains full float hubs for Jeeps. To my knowledge this is the only outfit that makes both front and rear full floaters for the stock JK axles. They don't offer a disconnect hub for the rear but I am guessing you can get a axle/hub cap kit as I described above.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...b-iae4vDC-zYhd

Yep,
As I stated above, WE DID IT way back, years ago. But, it was only done FOR TOWING. In reality, NONE of them lasted while driving the Jeeps on the street. In fact we, as in many, many of us in a Jeep group, broke so many of them driving on the street, we couldn't even trust them on the trails. We used Warn, Superwinch and more. There was about 10-12 of us using CJs way back then and we all did it. But, not one of those hubs could withstand even mild, everyday driving on pavement. We shattered the guts of those in usually, less than a couple of months. I went through three or four sets myself. And that was with the regular old AMC 4.2L six.


It's been a while. Yep, we converted all of them to "full floating" axles. Also, as stated, it is a nice idea but, until someone comes out with some selectable hubs that can withstand day to day driving ON PAVEMENT, it ain't gonna happen.
Scott