New Wagoneer/ Grand Wagoneer

[Ronvp]

Originally Posted by MS70

Ron- I have a 22 Grand Wagoneer series 3 with the blue-ox baseplate installed and the diodes for the lights. Lights work fine as long as the car has 'timed out' which takes 5 minutes with the doors closed and no other switches pushed. If the doors are opened it starts the cycle again. This time out cycle also affects the brake system. You can feel a difference in the travel and resistance in the pedal before and after it times out. The brake system appears to be very complex and Jeep will provide no technical information as to how it operates in sleep and non-sleep mode. I'm testing the RVI3 portable brake system. I didn't know if there was a vacuum line to tie into the dual pump hydraulic brakes. Can you post a pic of your T into the system and how you got to it? As you know, it's jammed with 'stuff' under the hod. Thanks very much. -Mike

Mike, I was aware of the time out, but noticed that even after it was timed out, the lights from the RV were "overruled" by the GW if I Hit the brake (the brakes appeared to work fine). I am traveling today with it all and will post an update.. for the wiring; I have not done anything under the hood, my wiring is done at (and on) the tail light units. I have 2 diodes on either side and then the single relay controlling the blue wire on the tail light unit. I also found a way to run all my wires through the inside of the GW. I will post some pics later on..

Also, for the tie in to the brake system it self, I installed the demco air force one (AF1), the GW has electric/hydraulic brakes, so there is no vacuum system to T into. Just plug of the vacuum line on the AF1 control box.(as per AF1 instructions).

[propchef]

Originally Posted by AZ RV'r

Im not trying to be funny.... but you all know its not a Jeep ...right?

Ive been told so.

Originally Posted by Nellybelle

What is it?

It's a Jeep.

The Wagoneer and the Grand Wagoneer are full-size SUVs produced by the Jeep division of Stellantis North America.[1] Both vehicles were released in March 2021 and are marketed without the Jeep badge.[2] The models are described as the "premium extension" of the Jeep brand in marketing copy.[3] Production of the 2022 Wagoneer and Grand Wagoneer commenced in the first half of 2021 at Warren Truck Assembly.[4] An electric version of the Wagoneer is expected in 2025.

They're built in Warren, Michigan.

[AZ RV'r]

Originally Posted by propchef

It's a Jeep.
They're built in Warren, Michigan.

Yes, it is a Stellantis product... and yes, it is made in Michigan.

But Jeep is a known word / brand with rugged off-road vehicles... This is supposed to be a "COMPLETELY STAND-ALONE LUXURY BRAND"

I mean... it's in your quote... it says "marketed without the Jeep badge."
You know why... Because they don't want it to be a Jeep!

Stellantis is spending millions for these to NOT be a Jeep.

In fact, on any new dealership signage being made from here forward, it will be required to have the Wagoneer separate like on the dealership page I linked above.

I get you are trying to make the connection and yes they are joined under the corporate umbrella, but it is... sold and marketed as two DIFFERENT products.

Last examples to prove my point... Volkswagen.
Did you know that Volkswagen owns Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley and Porsche, along with several other brands in Europe that are not imported to the US.
Did you also know that the Lamborghini Urus and the Bentley Bentayga are on the Audi Q7 platform and share hundred if not thousands of parts... Look up pictures of the steering wheels of each... notice many of the buttons and switches and their locations... look up the wheelbase too. Do you think a guy that spends $250k-$350k on the Bentley or Lamborghini want to be told it's just a glorified Audi.

Its why the Hyundai and Genesis brand are separate, but the same corporation owns them, and there is no badging of Hyundai on the Genesis vehicles. Same with Lexus and Toyota... Honda and Acura... Nissan and Infinity... Ford and Lincoln

I know what you are trying to say "Its a Jeep"... but what I'm trying to get you to hear is that it's NOT a Jeep. Why... Because nobody spending over $100k wants it to have a Jeep badge... and if you push on people that "its a Jeep" you'll end up being "that guy."

The conversations would always be like this.... ".... you spent how much.... $125,000.... on a Jeep....?" and then 5 minutes later "... WOW can you believe he spent that much... On a JEEP?... Thats just dumb!"

Thats why Stellantis is separating them... and that's why there is NO Jeep wording anywhere on it.

Hope this clears it up for you!

[MS70]

Ron- Thanks for the info. It's very useful. I'm interested to hear if you have any issues towing.

Your AF1 applies pressure to the brake pedal in the same manner that the RVI3 portable unit will (however the AF1 will be more proportional). I've tested the RVI3 at low speeds in a parking lot and it appears to work fine. I'm concerned that at some point, when the GW completely shuts off its electrical system, the pressure applied to the pedal might not be sufficient enough to slow the tow vehicle. You'll likely be able to answer that question after your tow today.

I installed my diodes in the rear lift gate and jumped the wire back to the main vehicle body by the top hinge. My wiring colors in the gate were different than what Roadmaster indicated but I was able to pin test and locate the correct wires to intercept. They all worked fine after the 5 minute time-out but I didn't test while the brake pedal in the GW was also being depressed. I will test that this weekend.

I've found at least three time-out routines on the GW:
(1) at 1 minute the dash and console lights turn off. At any point after that, if the brake pedal is pushed, any switches toggled, or any door is opened, the dash lights turn back on. When the dash lights are on, the diodes shut off the taillights and brake lights completely.

(2) After 5 minutes (with no pedal pushing, switches or doors) the car goes into a deeper sleep mode. At this point, the pedal travel and resistance change and the dash lights no longer turn on when the pedal is pushed.

(3) The usb power ports turn off after approximately one hour. I had a camera plugged into one of those ports and it notified me when it lost power. This is the stage that I'm concerned might change the ability of the 'pedal pushing' supplementary brake systems to slow the vehicle.

Hope you have a safe and uneventful trip today.

[Ronvp]

Disclaimer; following and previous posts on this forum, is my experience/opinion, use at your own risk.

Mike,
after towing for about 3 hours, it all seem to work correctly. Brakes appear to work and so do my lights.

After intercepting my brake light signal/switch at the tail lights, the lights work correctly with or without the time out. I hope to take some picks today to send to you, if not it will be later this week...For my brakes, it is difficult to feel if the GW is braking proportionally, but the coach brakes feel as good as without the GW hooked up. I did try a very hard brake from 50 mph to stop and it appeared to work good..so I am satisfied that my RV/GW are safe..

I have a READ switch on my brake pedal in the GW (comes with AF1) that switch triggers a light behind my GW windshield each time the brake pedal moves and I see the light come on in the RV rear camera. It's a good indicator that the system is operating.

As to proportional breaking; for me the brakes on the GW only need to work well during an emergency stop. My RV engine brakes and air brakes do most (if not all) of the regular breaking. When I tested my brakes on a quiet road and with a hard break, I could not see a appreciable increase in distance to full stop with the GW hooked up, so that is why I say my brakes appear to work good.

[MS70]

Ron- Great to hear you had an uneventful tow. I completely understand what you're saying about the coach's ability to stop both vehicles. During my test of the RVI3 in the parking lot, I drove at 30 mph and engaged the RVI3 brake from the control pad. I could feel a pull from the GW. My wife was in the GW at the time and she could see the brake depress the pedal and there wasn't anything else unusual.

My biggest concern is the GW waking from sleep mode and engaging its electronic parking brake while towing. The car has a mind of its own (and I really dislike that). There's a story online about a Jeep Grand Cherokee owner that recently had that occur while towing. It was a costly and unsafe experience to say the least. Here's my checklist I use before towing to reduce the chances of that occurring: (1)Auto Park Brake set to OFF (2) Verify Auto Hold switch is OFF (3) Verify ParkSense switch is OFF (4) Verify Automatic Emergency Braking is OFF (4) Passive Entry OFF - this prevents the GW from waking if the door handles are pulled (5) Power Side Steps OFF (6) Push the key fob 4 times when locking the car - this is the only way to disable the ridiculous Ultrasonic interior motion sensor. The manual says even air currents can trigger this if the windows are left open. It's ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS that this 'feature' cannot be permanently disabled. (7) Finally, I leave the driver's side seatbelt connected - this can prevent the Parking Brake from engaging under certain conditions.

Light tests in a few days. Thanks again!

[MattShan]

Originally Posted by New2road

Just incase anyone is interested.


I reach out to Jeep about flat towing. They responded by saying "the vehicle is able to be flat towed if equipped with the Four Wheel Drive models with 4WD LOW Range".



Just have to wait for base plates, lighting packages, and an extra $100K.

Have you purchased a Wagoner? I just acquired one, and am interested in using as a toad. I have from the previous owner, a Roadmaster tow bar setup. No base plate, however. Where do I start?

[dtroofing13]

Originally Posted by MattShan

Have you purchased a Wagoner? I just acquired one, and am interested in using as a toad. I have from the previous owner, a Roadmaster tow bar setup. No base plate, however. Where do I start?

Morning,
i have a GW and wondering if you figured this out?

derek

[dtroofing13]

Originally Posted by MS70

Ron- Great to hear you had an uneventful tow. I completely understand what you're saying about the coach's ability to stop both vehicles. During my test of the RVI3 in the parking lot, I drove at 30 mph and engaged the RVI3 brake from the control pad. I could feel a pull from the GW. My wife was in the GW at the time and she could see the brake depress the pedal and there wasn't anything else unusual.

My biggest concern is the GW waking from sleep mode and engaging its electronic parking brake while towing. The car has a mind of its own (and I really dislike that). There's a story online about a Jeep Grand Cherokee owner that recently had that occur while towing. It was a costly and unsafe experience to say the least. Here's my checklist I use before towing to reduce the chances of that occurring: (1)Auto Park Brake set to OFF (2) Verify Auto Hold switch is OFF (3) Verify ParkSense switch is OFF (4) Verify Automatic Emergency Braking is OFF (4) Passive Entry OFF - this prevents the GW from waking if the door handles are pulled (5) Power Side Steps OFF (6) Push the key fob 4 times when locking the car - this is the only way to disable the ridiculous Ultrasonic interior motion sensor. The manual says even air currents can trigger this if the windows are left open. It's ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS that this 'feature' cannot be permanently disabled. (7) Finally, I leave the driver's side seatbelt connected - this can prevent the Parking Brake from engaging under certain conditions.

Light tests in a few days. Thanks again!

Mike & Ron,

Did you guys post some pics of this? Selling my 2007 Tiffin Allegro Bus, buying a dynamax for the bunks.

I'm thinking seriously about flat pulling my GW, but it seems complicated just by reading your messages.

I also wanted to know if you guys are having success?

thanks,
Derek

[Ronvp]

Derek,

It is not really that complicated. The hardest thing was to setup the brake light wiring. Putting the GW in flat tow mode is easy. Just follow the car manual instructions.

I have not posted any pics yet. Because I have to physically take light units out to take those pics..I will do it as soon as I have some time...

[MS70]

Ron-

How many trips / miles have you now towed your GW? Any issues?

Are you using any tow protection (e.g. Roadmaster Tow Defender, Blue Ox KarGard)

Thanks

[Ronvp]

Originally Posted by MS70

Ron-

How many trips / miles have you now towed your GW? Any issues?

Are you using any tow protection (e.g. Roadmaster Tow Defender, Blue Ox KarGard)

Thanks

I have now towed it about 800 miles. No issues whatsoever. I am exactly following the GW flat tow instructions in the manual. I noticed that sometimes when I take it out of flat tow mode, the TPMS from the GW gives warnings on all 4 tires, but after driving for about 1 mile, all tire pressures are back to normal.

I am not using any tow protection and have not seen any tow damage (rock chips, etc), but I think that is mostly dependent on what roads you drive and your mud guard on the RV..

[btrlife]

Picking up my Wagoneer today. Just figuring out the wiring requirements and these posts have been very help full Thank you!

From My understanding the Wagoneer has "JEEP" marked under each exterior mirror. I consider it a JEEP and that is a good thing.

Second, when I had a 2021 Yukon Denali I had to add a battery disconnect on the positive side so the automatic braking system and steering would not try and interfere, this worked well.

Lastly, on my JL wrangler that I am trading on this Wagoneer I had a wiring and towing setup from CoolTechLLC and it was awesome. The wiring was connected to the wiring harness by slicing into the lines that run to the back of the jeep. This is really slick - I wonder if it would work on the Wagoneer?

[Ronvp]

Originally Posted by btrlife

Picking up my Wagoneer today. Just figuring out the wiring requirements and these posts have been very help full Thank you!

From My understanding the Wagoneer has "JEEP" marked under each exterior mirror. I consider it a JEEP and that is a good thing.

Second, when I had a 2021 Yukon Denali I had to add a battery disconnect on the positive side so the automatic braking system and steering would not try and interfere, this worked well.

Lastly, on my JL wrangler that I am trading on this Wagoneer I had a wiring and towing setup from CoolTechLLC and it was awesome. The wiring was connected to the wiring harness by slicing into the lines that run to the back of the jeep. This is really slick - I wonder if it would work on the Wagoneer?

Congrats on your new Wagoneer..

My post were all for the Grand Wagoneer (GW), which uses a different tail/brake light system than the Wagoneer(W) The GW has a animated signal and brake light, which makes it all it bit more difficult.

I originally had the cooltech harness with the mechanical switch installed. I intercepted the wires in the driver side door sill(the JL is intercepted on the passenger side) It worked well, but the animated light modules in the tail lights kept interfering so I removed it and wend the diode route. So if you have the wagoneer (as opposed to the grand Wagoneer), you should (may) be fine with the cooltech harness and switch(I prefer it)

The user manual of the GW, says nothing about disconnecting the battery for flat towing. I follow the manual instructions exactly and it is working just fine...