Supplemental braking systems for toads

[Cheryl Bisson]

Our RV is gas, so a small compressor was attached to the frame which increases the overall cost a little more. But still worth it!!

[rga48]

I agree with the other Airforce One users. No one has a better design. Only an air line connection and it is directly proportional to MH brake system. I have seen and talked with people using inertia based systems and they have ruined tires and/or brakes with those systems.

[Maik]

No matter what everyone says about their own system; any one using an air cylinder to operate the brake system is the superior system. Like others have said that just an air line to the toad and its that simple. I use a simple air cylinder to the brake pedal and it works great. Tried Brake Buddy but it only works if you brake hard, and is not as good on long steep grades.

[NXR]

I used flat loom to protect the wiring from the six pin baseplate connector to my tail lights and it easily fit under the door scuff plates.

A man after my own heart. I really did not like how Etrailer just strings wiring underneath and tie wraps things to brake lines. I ran all wiring in wire loom as well.

Ray

[Alfred622]

In 2006 I researched toad braking systems. I found many stories of how they failed - sometimes with disastrous results. However, I never found failure stories about the NSA Ready Brake system. This is a purely mechanical system that activates the brakes in the toad via a mostly-hidden cable that is pulled by a lever on the tow bar. When the RV slows down, the tow wants to push forward into the RV, that moves the lever which applies the tow brakes. It is such a simple system, easy to hook up, nothing extra to store, and affordable that I purchased it. In the past 15 years I've used it on flat roads, emergency stops, twisty mountain roads (up and down), driving in large cities with stop & go traffic, and it has always worked just fine for me. The only "control" I have in the RV is a small red light that tells me when the tow brakes are engaged. There is nothing else to adjust. I've been real happy with this simple and reliable system. The tow (a 2003 Honda CRV) has been real happy too - no issues with the brakes at all.

[Jerdog]

I had a RoadMaster BrakePro for several years until it quit working properly and RoadMaster gave me a descent discount to upgrade to their EvenBrake which I used for several more years (12 years total). With those units I was always checking to make sure that it was engaging and if it did, that it would release once I wanted to accelerate again. One time I had to brake really hard on the freeway and the front brakes of the tow locked up and ruined two new front tires.
When I got my latest Motorhome which is a DP, I sold the EvenBrake and got the AirForce One. What a difference; I would never go back to that type of system. The AirForce One brakes effortlessly with the coach so you never even know the toad brakes are engaging except that you slow down almost the same as if the toad wasn’t there. Plus, it is so much easier to hook up and disengage.

[CWO USN]

This has to be the best write-up I've read regarding supplemental brake systems. Not only does it define the sometimes confusing word-play between the various systems available, it also guides the reader.

Browse: https://campaddict.com/towed-vehicle-braking-systems/

and read for your self!

[NXR]

Originally Posted by CWO USN

This has to be the best write-up I've read regarding supplemental brake systems. Not only does it define the sometimes confusing word-play between the various systems available, it also guides the reader.

Browse: https://campaddict.com/towed-vehicle-braking-systems/

and read for your self!

Yes, agreed. Nice find.

The only thing that could make it better is if they called out which products were which type and also mentioned the NSA Readybrake system.

Another improvement would have been to mention just how the vacuum power brake systems get powered up, by cutting the vacuum line and installing a T fitting and a check valve. I might have listed that as a "Con" because I did not like that aspect until I got familiar with how it actually happened.

The "proportional" versus "progressive" difference is one that I did not understand in the beginning. I was looking at the Roadmaster InvisiBrake (progressive) and then an installer explained the difference to me. My Stay-IN-Play DUO (proportional) is also "invisible" unless you bend down and look under the dash and felt like an easier installation. That installer called the InvisiBrake "very invasive". (Let the disagreements begin! )

Ray

[Our05Winneba]

Originally Posted by Southwind 04

I need a new braking system for my toad. I had the Even Brake for years but was never happy with the performance of that system. But alas it died just as we purchased our first DP a Journey 42e with Tag. So I would like to hear others experience with these braking systems Before I sink another $1500 to $2000 into another poor performer!

Thank you!

OK - Lots of discussion here about which system everyone has or likes. But one thing which ALL (except the NSA ReadyBrake) the electronic /"black box" systems have in common is that they are all :
1> only measure deceleration through complicated sensors and electronics
2> apply force to the TOAD brake pedal through additional electronics and mechanical brake actuator (air line, mechanical actuator - whatever).

But the NSA ReadyBrake does the same thing (applies TOAD brakes) without needing any electronics to sense deceleration, and without needing any "artificial" way to power the brake pedal. It simply uses a simple, straight forward mechanical system that simply compresses the system tow bar receiver against a spring which then begins to move a lever, pulling on a cable which is attached to the TOAD brake pedal. The more the RV towing the car decelerates, the more the lever is moved, and hence the more the TOAD brakes are applied. Very simple as it is doing exactly what all the other electronic systems do in a very complicated and expensive way.

This is why I went with the NSA ReadyBrake. I not only saved >$1000 over any of the Black box systems but in daily use there is no special setup required - all I do is hook up the tow bar to my Blue Ox baseplate on our Honda CRV, connect the usual wire harness, safety chains, emergency brake cable and TOAD brake cable - and I am done. Have no big box to lug around, or to jam in place between the seat and floorboard, etc.

Been using as full timers for 2 1/2 years traveling across country (twice) and up & down both East & West coasts. Highly recommended.

[NXR]

But the NSA ReadyBrake does the same thing (applies TOAD brakes) without needing any electronics to sense deceleration, and without needing any "artificial" way to power the brake pedal. It simply uses a simple, straight forward mechanical system that simply compresses the system tow bar receiver against a spring which then begins to move a lever, pulling on a cable which is attached to the TOAD brake pedal. The more the RV towing the car decelerates, the more the lever is moved, and hence the more the TOAD brakes are applied. Very simple as it is doing exactly what all the other electronic systems do in a very complicated and expensive way.

Perhaps. So did my dolly surge brakes.

When going down a steep or long hill the dolly manual cautioned that the car pushing on the surge brake mechanism spring could cause the brakes on the car to overheat. It also cautioned that you should never stop at the bottom because the extreme heat of the brakes could warp the discs. (That won't happen with my Stay-IN-Play DUO because it needs to sense deceleration and needs to see a signal from the motorhome's brake lights before it applies the toad's brakes.)

The more the RV towing the car decelerates, the more the lever is moved, and hence the more the TOAD brakes are applied.

When going over rough and washboard roads we occasionally would feel the dolly's surge brakes kick in because it felt like a giant hand grabbed the back of the motorhome for an instant. (The toad won't try to stop the motorhome with my Stay-IN-Play DUO because it needs to sense deceleration and needs to see a signal from the motorhome's brake lights before it applies the toad's brakes.)

Since the Readybrake is essentially the same mechanism, does it have any way to know that the RV is not really decelerating and that the RV is just going down a steep hill? From the NSA site: https://www.readybrake.com/test-results.html

That link is a real "WTH?" for anyone with experience in statistics or high-reliability systems. Essentially NSA is trumpeting that one person with a 1982 "Newall" RV (probably meant to write "Newell") going down one hill while towing a 1997 car saw that the brakes did not come on and called it "testing". As my statistics instructor used to say "A sample size of one is poor statistics." And testing and reliability and repeatability are all about statistics. Gees, NSA couldn't even do real performance testing?

If the NSA Readybrake works so well, why do they have an optional vacuum pump to power up the toad's power brakes? Because, as they noted, some people don't believe in their method. For NSA to spend the time and money developing an add-on vacuum pump they had to have a lot of requests. https://www.readybrake.com/uploads/3...acuum_pump.pdf Our Ready Brake supplemental brake system does not require the use of this vacuum pump to operate but using it will make the brake pedal easier to pull down which creates less tension on the cables and connections.


There is no standard saying that XX amount of force applied to an unassisted brake pedal will generate XX amount of braking so there's no way to know if sufficient braking power is being achieved. If too much braking is applied you'll (eventually) notice it on the brake wear and tires. And tire squeals if you can hear them.

But if insufficient braking force is applied then you'll only know if you can actually measure stopping distance or you smack into someone.

Our toad adds about 17% to the GVWR of the motorhome. When I had my Stay-IN-Play DUO adjusted too lightly the brakes barely came on yet we never noticed any difference in braking ability. Why? Because we, like just about any motorhome driver, always brake early and maintain good distances. It isn't until you smash into someone that the subsequent investigation will show whether your toad increased your braking distance.

Any supplemental braking system is good enough until you smack into someone. Only then will you know how much it helped or didn't.

The above points may not be differentiators for you; they were for me. I have a gasser so my motorhome is at 86% of GVWR with just two adults and full fuel, no "stuff". When fully loaded it's very close to GVWR so I have no spare braking capacity to compensate for a towed car. If I had a DP with two tons of spare capacity and thus two tons of spare braking capacity, maybe I wouldn't be as concerned.

Nah, I still would be just as concerned.

FWIW,

Ray

[Johnynorthla]

I never had a Ready break NSA but I really wanted one. I couldn’t find anyone close by that would install it! I settled on a BlueOx pat3. Works great as I’ve mentioned in another post And I am pretty happy with it. But I sure do like the entire design and operation of the ready break! You can’t beat mechanical for this type of operation!

Perhaps The add on for a vacuum pump might be better suited for heavy vehicles, over 4K pounds.

Sometimes, just to check my Blue Ox system, while rolling slow coming to a stop I will hit the auxiliary button on my in cab braking system and my little CRV slows down my RV to stop pretty darn good.

[AZ RV'r]

According you so many of you before this that posted..... "Get the AF1 or M&G...its so easy... just one air line..."

Tell that to this guy.... Im sure he was also always saying "it was easy, and just one line" too.... until the one thing the WHOLE system hinges on... failed.

This is a thread started TODAY....

The thread is titled... "Air Force One Hose Blew Off when braking Hard"

Here's the link....
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f278/air...ml#post5476752

Here is one quote direct from that post.... "When we arrived at our RV site to unhook we found the SMS/Demco Air Force One hose had blown off. We think the male end of the hose is still stuck in our receptacle on the coach"

The situation above is something I specifically mentioned in my previous post #23..... without something to monitor the system on the dash, he had no idea that the system wasn't working or when it had failed until he arrived at his campsite. That was one of many reasons that myself and many others chose the RVI3 Brake, because the dash tablet display will alarm if any of the parameters fail. What if it had happened before a long, steep, down hill run with a heavy toad?

Many of you probably didn't go back and read all the previous comments, but if you are interested I wrote a thorough post about why I DIDN'T choose this kind of system.... Its post #23

I'll say it again... I did the research, and it was a definite NO for me.

[Money Man]

Originally Posted by dons2346

If it can be fitted to your toad, the M&G is the best there is. One air line to hook up and you are done

+1

We’re on our second toad with the M&G. You connect the air line and the breakaway. Takes at least 10 seconds.

[Money Man]

Originally Posted by AZ RV'r

But here's some fun facts......
But did you know that directly on the M&G website, it has this listed as the first step... "1.Drill a 3/8" hole thru floor behind pedal. See picture for location. Check drill location for obstacles."
Here is the link so you can check for your self.... There is a picture RIGHT above step #1.
https://m-gengineering.com/products/mg-2-0-system/

That’s for the version 2 of the M&G which is for those without coach air brakes.

Version 1 is for air brake coaches and it works flawlessly with, literally, a 10-second hookup.