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Old 02-28-2019, 06:19 PM   #43
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Electric vehicle owners saving the planet

Every time I read one of these stories about the people that have one of these over priced electric vehicles, I have to laugh! They spend so much money and insurance for these cars that will need new batteries way before you get the benefit for owning one. They are even claiming they are environmentally friendly. For one, where do they think the power coming out of the wall to charge the vehicle comes from? NEWS FLASH! Itís not from wind or solar. They also need to look into where the raw materials come from to build their so called earth friendly car. They will argue till theyíre blue in the face to defend their very expensive purchase.
Living near Portland, I see these uninformed idiots all the time. A year or two ago the greenies were trying to block a ship from going back out to sea to do oil drilling research. They were in the river in their plastic boats that were made with petroleum products. Go figure??
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Old 02-28-2019, 07:06 PM   #44
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Every time I read one of these stories about the people that have one of these over priced electric vehicles, I have to laugh! They spend so much money and insurance for these cars that will need new batteries way before you get the benefit for owning one. They are even claiming they are environmentally friendly. For one, where do they think the power coming out of the wall to charge the vehicle comes from? NEWS FLASH! Itís not from wind or solar. They also need to look into where the raw materials come from to build their so called earth friendly car. They will argue till theyíre blue in the face to defend their very expensive purchase.
Living near Portland, I see these uninformed idiots all the time. A year or two ago the greenies were trying to block a ship from going back out to sea to do oil drilling research. They were in the river in their plastic boats that were made with petroleum products. Go figure??
Heh heh. And you somehow equated all of that to a guy like me who just wanted to spend 30,000 bucks on a nice quiet comfortable new car that is easy to maintain, cheap to run and fun to drive? Too funny. If you donít like electric cars donít buy one. But you might want to use a little smaller paint brush to paint everyone who doesnít buy the same car you do. .
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Old 02-28-2019, 09:42 PM   #45
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I've driven a 2014 Leaf for 3 years now and I paid $9,500 for it off lease with a little over 10,000 miles on it while a new one would have been around $17,000 to $21,000 with the energy incentives applied. Some times you will qualify for more incentives by leasing them getting the money taken off immediately and then buy off the lease after several months.

Its not supposed to be flat towed or dolly towed for a number of reasons one of which is that the car has to be on and booted up in order to take it out of park and for the brakes to be fully operative. There is also the chance that the cars can go into parking mode and lock up the rear wheels stressing a tow bar or pulling them off the dolly.

The regenerative braking is progressive until the battery is fully charged and then its mechanical brakes only. You will see the regen indicator going up indicating a higher level of regen the harder you press on the brake pedal. The friction brakes many times only get engaged when coming to a full stop or when you put the car in park. People who live on mountains and have long stretches when they drive out from their homes where they need engine braking to prevent brake pad overheating have learned to not fully charge their cars and leave them with enough space (charged to say only 75% to 80%) to provide engine braking as they descend from their homes.

There is no conventional transmission in the Leaf and the electric motor basically directly drives the pinion gear in the differential so no actual neutral, no reverse gear, no clutch or torque converter and no parking pawl so park is just automatic engagement of the rear brakes. When flat towed the electric motor will always be rotating. Reverse is provided by running the electric motor in the opposite direction and neutral is just by releasing the parking brake with no power to the electric motor. The lack of having an automatic transmission eliminates a lot of failure points and maintenance costs. Maintenance is basically change the wiper blades and rotate the tires annually along with check the coolant (it has a radiator with coolant for the charger/controller) and brake fluid.

I still get 100 actual miles of range from my 24 kWh Leaf which still has the original battery however I use the heated seats and steering wheel in stead of the cabin heater since the cabin heat is electrical resistance heating and uses a lot more electricity then the seat heaters. In the summer I do not run the electric motor that powers the AC compressor all the time either and manually turn it off and on to extend range.

Tuesday I had to go out of town on a 75 mile round trip with 50 of that on the Interstate. I drove 20 additional miles around town running errands when I got back before going home and putting the car on the L1 charger that evening and it was fully charged by morning. Total drive was 95 miles and the car was not in limp mode but just flashing the indicator that it was getting low on range. You have to fight the urge to use the torque that the electric cars are capable of if you want to extend your useful range. Unfortunately too many folks aren't very good fighters.

Charging was free the first few years since my employer to get his global Leeds Score up installed chargers in the parking garage. There are now the Tesla standards and L1, L2, DC Quick 400 Volt and the new 100 kW Quick Chargers.

I charge at home with the L1 now and notice little difference in my power bill.

Insurance is cheap too however I have no tickets, am past that risky bloom of youth stage of life and have a good driver rating.

Stores, hotels, doughnut shops, parking garages, public libraries, etc have public charging stations all over the place around here so charging is no big deal and you can get discounts for belonging to a charging network and not just a guest or with validation of a purchase when using a stores/restaurants charger.

Batteries are modular and made of packs and the packs are made up of linked cells that are bolted together so once they no longer meet the minimum storage capacity for transportation use they can be reconfigured for solar storage and power backup for a variety of industrial and home uses. Many times the packs can be balanced charged and put back into automotive service for a few more years. Shops that sell and maintain used Prius have been doing batter reconfiguration and balance charging for over a decade.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:02 PM   #46
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I've driven a 2014 Leaf for 3 years now and I paid $9,500 for it off lease with a little over 10,000 miles on it while a new one would have been around $17,000 to $21,000 with the energy incentives applied. Some times you will qualify for more incentives by leasing them getting the money taken off immediately and then buy off the lease after several months.

Its not supposed to be flat towed or dolly towed for a number of reasons one of which is that the car has to be on and booted up in order to take it out of park and for the brakes to be fully operative. There is also the chance that the cars can go into parking mode and lock up the rear wheels stressing a tow bar or pulling them off the dolly.

The regenerative braking is progressive until the battery is fully charged and then its mechanical brakes only. You will see the regen indicator going up indicating a higher level of regen the harder you press on the brake pedal. The friction brakes many times only get engaged when coming to a full stop or when you put the car in park. People who live on mountains and have long stretches when they drive out from their homes where they need engine braking to prevent brake pad overheating have learned to not fully charge their cars and leave them with enough space (charged to say only 75% to 80%) to provide engine braking as they descend from their homes.

There is no conventional transmission in the Leaf and the electric motor basically directly drives the pinion gear in the differential so no actual neutral, no reverse gear, no clutch or torque converter and no parking pawl so park is just automatic engagement of the rear brakes. When flat towed the electric motor will always be rotating. Reverse is provided by running the electric motor in the opposite direction and neutral is just by releasing the parking brake with no power to the electric motor. The lack of having an automatic transmission eliminates a lot of failure points and maintenance costs. Maintenance is basically change the wiper blades and rotate the tires annually along with check the coolant (it has a radiator with coolant for the charger/controller) and brake fluid.

I still get 100 actual miles of range from my 24 kWh Leaf which still has the original battery however I use the heated seats and steering wheel in stead of the cabin heater since the cabin heat is electrical resistance heating and uses a lot more electricity then the seat heaters. In the summer I do not run the electric motor that powers the AC compressor all the time either and manually turn it off and on to extend range.

Tuesday I had to go out of town on a 75 mile round trip with 50 of that on the Interstate. I drove 20 additional miles around town running errands when I got back before going home and putting the car on the L1 charger that evening and it was fully charged by morning. Total drive was 95 miles and the car was not in limp mode but just flashing the indicator that it was getting low on range. You have to fight the urge to use the torque that the electric cars are capable of if you want to extend your useful range. Unfortunately too many folks aren't very good fighters.

Charging was free the first few years since my employer to get his global Leeds Score up installed chargers in the parking garage. There are now the Tesla standards and L1, L2, DC Quick 400 Volt and the new 100 kW Quick Chargers.

I charge at home with the L1 now and notice little difference in my power bill.

Insurance is cheap too however I have no tickets, am past that risky bloom of youth stage of life and have a good driver rating.

Stores, hotels, doughnut shops, parking garages, public libraries, etc have public charging stations all over the place around here so charging is no big deal and you can get discounts for belonging to a charging network and not just a guest or with validation of a purchase when using a stores/restaurants charger.

Batteries are modular and made of packs and the packs are made up of linked cells that are bolted together so once they no longer meet the minimum storage capacity for transportation use they can be reconfigured for solar storage and power backup for a variety of industrial and home uses. Many times the packs can be balanced charged and put back into automotive service for a few more years. Shops that sell and maintain used Prius have been doing batter reconfiguration and balance charging for over a decade.
Great write up. We are in year 4 with ours. We have the bigger battery with the longer range but the new ones are (the 2019 Leaf plus) is double the size of our battery (62KWh). That would be wasted on us right now as we never go more than 150 km (although we have done a couple longer road trips and used DC fast charging).

We paid about 30,000 all in (Canadian Currency). It is the best winter car we have EVER had. It has been between minus 15 and minus 20 every freakin morning for the last few weeks. While the neighbours are out scraping windows and idling their cars to get them warm I just grab the cell phone and pre-heat it before I go to work. Windows clear, seats warm, steering wheel warm. Same thing in the summer. No more getting in a hot car. We have two EVís. We have bought three jugs of washer fluid in 4 years. Thatís all the maintenance costs for two vehicles. And we live never going to a gas station anymore.

EVís are not ideal for everyoneís needs but they sure are nice for those of us whose lifestyle is a good fit.

We are thinking of a new Leaf EPlus next year to replace the wifeís car. She wants either that or a model 3 Tesla.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:09 PM   #47
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Great write up. We are in year 4 with ours. We have the bigger battery with the longer range but the new ones are (the 2019 Leaf plus) is double the size of our battery (62KWh). That would be wasted on us right now as we never go more than 150 km (although we have done a couple longer road trips and used DC fast charging).

We paid about 30,000 all in (Canadian Currency). It is the best winter car we have EVER had. It has been between minus 15 and minus 20 every freakin morning for the last few weeks. While the neighbours are out scraping windows and idling their cars to get them warm I just grab the cell phone and pre-heat it before I go to work. Windows clear, seats warm, steering wheel warm. Same thing in the summer. No more getting in a hot car. We have two EV’s. We have bought three jugs of washer fluid in 4 years. That’s all the maintenance costs for two vehicles. And we live never going to a gas station anymore.

EV’s are not ideal for everyone’s needs but they sure are nice for those of us whose lifestyle is a good fit.

We are thinking of a new Leaf EPlus next year to replace the wife’s car. She wants either that or a model 3 Tesla.
Model 3 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. Not a hard decision for me.
https://electrek.co/2018/08/06/tesla...-quarter-mile/
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:19 PM   #48
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Model 3 0-60 in 3.3 seconds. Not a hard decision for me.
Yah right? But those ones are a little overkill for our commuting needs. They have 35000 USD version that still does it under 6.

We have played with the Tesla configurator. There is a medium range 400 km version that with a little dressing up comes in around 44000 ish which is in the budget. Still kinda overkill for our needs. Weíll look a little closer next year.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:43 PM   #49
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Yah right? But those ones are a little overkill for our commuting needs. They have 35000 USD version that still does it under 6.

We have played with the Tesla configurator. There is a medium range 400 km version that with a little dressing up comes in around 44000 ish which is in the budget. Still kinda overkill for our needs. Weíll look a little closer next year.
Radar, Respect your decision, but some people are Porsche people and some are Corolla people, I would give up the extra 100 mile range if the first 100 were in the 3.3 range.
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Old 02-28-2019, 10:50 PM   #50
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Radar, Respect your decision, but some people are Porsche people and some are Corolla people, I would give up the extra 100 mile range if the first 100 were in the 3.3 range.
I hear ya. We have done test drives in an S, an X and a model 3 AWD non performance. All amazing cars but the fastest was the model S P90D. Zero to sixty in 2.7 seconds. Literally felt nauseous on the third run. Crazy fun. Next year we’ll look a little closer at the AWD long range model 3 before we make any decisions. I think the zero to sixty is around 4 for those. Kinda like to keep it around max 60,000.

Cheers.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:00 PM   #51
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I don’t care what you, or anyone else buys. Just don’t preach to me about how you are saving the planet by using clean energy. Because your not! Those vehicles use a lot of very rare raw materials that no other car uses
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:03 PM   #52
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I donít care what you, or anyone else buys. Just donít preach to me about how you are saving the planet by using clean energy.
Heh heh. Mayby itís different where you are. That doesnít happen here.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:35 PM   #53
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I donít care what you, or anyone else buys. Just donít preach to me about how you are saving the planet by using clean energy. Because your not! Those vehicles use a lot of very rare raw materials that no other car uses
Interesting point since you live in the Pacific Northwest, which has the highest percentage of hydroelectric power to fossil fuel power in the US. Wish we had a Bonneville Power Authority in Colorado, so our rate per kilowatt-hour could be as low as yours!
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:15 AM   #54
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I hear ya. We have done test drives in an S, an X and a model 3 AWD non performance. All amazing cars but the fastest was the model S P90D. Zero to sixty in 2.7 seconds. Literally felt nauseous on the third run. Crazy fun. Next year weíll look a little closer at the AWD long range model 3 before we make any decisions. I think the zero to sixty is around 4 for those. Kinda like to keep it around max 60,000.

Cheers.
One problem I see with these cars that need no maintenance is that they cost 50-60 grand. For 90% of the car buying crowd, thatís not an option. Theyíll buy a 3 year old Civic for 15K that gets 30+ mpg and not spend the other 45K on fuel and maintenance in the next 15-20 years.

And when Time of Use electric rates becomes the norm, guess when theyíll jack up the rates? Gotta love those smart meters.
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Old 03-01-2019, 07:54 AM   #55
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One problem I see with these cars that need no maintenance is that they cost 50-60 grand. For 90% of the car buying crowd, that’s not an option. They’ll buy a 3 year old Civic for 15K that gets 30+ mpg and not spend the other 45K on fuel and maintenance in the next 15-20 years.

And when Time of Use electric rates becomes the norm, guess when they’ll jack up the rates? Gotta love those smart meters.
Well yah but those models or the variants thereof are not stealing sales from Honda or economy cars, they are stealing sales from other manufacturers of high performance luxury sedans or SUV’s like BMW, Mercedes, Land Rover, Audi etc.

A 3 year old Leaf on the other hand would may be comparable to a three year old civic and about the same price.

I think it depends where you are as well. Demographics etc. 50,000 bucks for a new car is pretty common around here although I suspect the average is closer to 35,000.

Re time of use meters. Utilities want EV owners to charge in off peak hours. That’s why they set up programs to that effect. Some places are as low as 4 cents per kilowatt hour. It can be pretty dirt cheap to charge at home if you use the charge timer function of the cars or EVSE.

It’s a learning curve. In our province pretty much 100 percent of the power comes from Hydro so it’s always the same price at about 11 cents per kWh. When we are at our California home we put ourselves on the TOU plan and charge accordingly.
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Old 03-01-2019, 08:08 AM   #56
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Tesla Toad...is an ideal car BUT

You will need to convince Elon and company to do some reengineeering. They carefully protect their assembly details and parts info. Write Elon on his Tweeter account and make this suggestion. For me an an Owner, it would void my warranty to make any alterations to allow this to happen.
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