Toad blowout - cause?

[johnhicks]

I check in the mirrors to see that steering is free and all wheels are turning.

Another trick is to attach something bright on the toad steering wheel so you can see it turn in the rearview camera.

[Droski]

We have a 2006 Jeep Liberty that we tow behind our MH. I found the steering wheel unlock position to be very difficult to find. On several occasions when I thought it was unlocked it was not. I finally put a battery disconnect on and leave the switch in the on position, no more problems.

[hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by DianaCox

I would be upset if this is what happened - husband checked that key was in the first notch and turned the wheel to ensure that the steering was unlocked as part of the hookup process and I was standing next to the car when he did it and saw the wheels moving freely.

Turning the steering wheel a little doesn't do much to confirm the steering is unlocked. Most steering wheel locks can take up to nearly a 360* turn (depending on lock design) before the lock pin engages the steering wheel.

I had a right front toad (1999 Wrangler) blow out many years ago. No TPMS. Everything looked normal in the rear camera and I felt nothing at all from the driver's seat. Passing cars waved me down. RF tire gone and rim running only on the remaining tire beads. It's amazing that there are no symptoms of a toad blowout from the driver seat of the motorhome.

[DianaCox]

More and more, I'm thinking that getting the steering lock removed is the best idea. Who is going to steal a dirty old 2007 Jeep Liberty anyway?

My husband has called our mechanic to ask how much they would charge to disable the steering lock - he doesn't want to risk screwing that up himself (he's a very skilled home mechanic as a retired home contractor, but this is something he doesn't want to mess with).

[DianaCox]

Originally Posted by Droski

We have a 2006 Jeep Liberty that we tow behind our MH. I found the steering wheel unlock position to be very difficult to find. On several occasions when I thought it was unlocked it was not. I finally put a battery disconnect on and leave the switch in the on position, no more problems.

One problem with that - if you disconnect the battery, the brake and signal lights are not going to work.

I'm thinking disabling the steering lock is the way to go to be sure.

[hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by DianaCox

One problem with that - if you disconnect the battery, the brake and signal lights are not going to work.

I'm thinking disabling the steering lock is the way to go to be sure.

In all the cases I know of, your toad brake, turn and tail lights are powered by the motorhome via the umbilical.

[twinboat]

You may be barking up the wrong tree with the steering lock.

If the steering wheel locked, it would have put some wear on the tires, but not ripped the tread off in a few miles.

The front tires may have turned all the way to the right and got stuck there. It happened.

Do a test.
Drive straight ahead in a parking lot or empty road for 100 feet while towing.

Stop the MH and turn the Jeep steering all the way to the right.


Now start to drive the MH foward and see if the steering on the Jeep turns and straighten out.

[hohenwald48]

I think this whole thing is being over analyzed. I suspect you picked up some road debris and had a rapid deflation that resulted in an overheated tire failing as a result of low pressure. Simple as that. Probably happens many times each day. They just don't all get reported on IRV2.

There's plenty of Jeep Liberty toads out there. If Liberty wheels spontaneously getting jammed at full lock was an issue I have to believe we would've heard of it over the years.

[DianaCox]

Originally Posted by twinboat

The front tires may have turned all the way to the right and got stuck there. It happened.

YIKES? While driving? HOW? We made two easy right turns in the first 1/8 mile leaving the campground, then pretty much were driving straight on I-17 - how could the wheels get turned and stuck? That makes me even more paranoid that it could just "happen"!

Not going to freak out. Not going to freak out. Not going to freak out.

[DianaCox]

Originally Posted by hohenwald48

In all the cases I know of, your toad brake, turn and tail lights are powered by the motorhome via the umbilical.

Oh, OK - good point. I was thinking that was just signal, not power too. Thanks!

[DianaCox]

Originally Posted by hohenwald48

I think this whole thing is being over analyzed. I suspect you picked up some road debris and had a rapid deflation that resulted in an overheated tire failing as a result of low pressure. Simple as that. Probably happens many times each day. They just don't all get reported on IRV2.

There's plenty of Jeep Liberty toads out there. If Liberty wheels spontaneously getting jammed at full lock was an issue I have to believe we would've heard of it over the years.

I would think that too, except the fact that in retrospect, we remembered that a couple of people had honked in the previous several miles while passing us - we had not registered by their behavior (no vigorous handwaving, e.g.) that they might have been trying to tell us something. So apparently something MAY have been visibly wrong for several miles.

Rear view camera will be pointed at the front wheels henceforth.

[hohenwald48]

Originally Posted by DianaCox

I would think that too, except the fact that in retrospect, we remembered that a couple of people had honked in the previous several miles while passing us - we had not registered by their behavior (no vigorous handwaving, e.g.) that they might have been trying to tell us something. So apparently something MAY have been visibly wrong for several miles.

Rear view camera will be pointed at the front wheels henceforth.

Folks were probably waving to indicate a low tire. Your TPMS does not display real time information. I believe you have Pressure Pro and in the first paragraph of the owners manual it states

"PressurePro Sensors read tire pressure 12,343 times a day, every 7 seconds, and transmit updated readings to the Monitor every 5 minutes assuring timely information. If an alarm level is reached, PressurePro Sensors will override the normal update and alert the Monitor immediately (see “Alerts” section). Because of the quirks of RF Transmissions and interference, no guarantee of signal reception can be made. PressurePro is not meant to function as a pressure gauge or low pressure indicator."

Pressure Pro uses a "Baseline" pressure to activate alarms at 12.5% and 25% less than the "baseline"pressure. It's possible your installer did not properly set the "baseline" pressure value when installing the sensors. It's possible that a sensor was deleted. All it takes is is pressing the wrong button (look in manual under PROG BUTTON) for too long to delete a sensor. Lots of possible reasons why the TPMS didn't alarm.

Any given tire pressure is only updated to the panel every 5 minutes. If just 2 update cycles passed, that would allow 10 minutes for the tire to overheat and fail as a result. It could even overheat and fail in a single 5 minute data update cycle. I suspect your problem is as simple as that. You had a flat, not a great mystery.

Flat tires happen all the time and TPMS is not a real time pressure monitoring system. Even pointing the rear camera at the tires won't help much unless someone stares at the monitor all the time. Look away for 5-10 minutes and something could happen.

And remember, when driving down the road if someone waves and honks at you it's probably not because they're just being friendly.

[DianaCox]

We will be far more aware of other drivers beeping at us in the future!

I need to call the TPMS dealer to walk through a review of what happened and whether the settings are correct.

[Tireman9]

Number of observations from a tire engineer who specialized in forensic analysis of failed tires.

- Original pictures lead me to believe the tire was turned and being dragged as I note the significant difference in the tread surface wear of the outside shoulder vs the inside shoulder rib.

- TPMS are designed to warn of an inflation drop not of belt separation. You can easily test this yourself. With tires inflated slowely unscrew the TPM sensor till air is heard leaking out and have the co-pilot honk the horn as soon as the TPM beeps. You can then check the air pressure in the tire and confirm the low pressure warning is working. DO NOT FORGET TO REINFLATE the tires

- OE TPMS will not send a signal to your aftermarket TPM monitor. OE systems only work with the car's OE system.

- If you keep the tires I would be happy to walk you through a detailed inspection. PM me for contact info if interested. Failed Tire inspection was my primary duty for the last few years of my career as a tire engineer. I taught classes on how to inspect. Even taught engineers at DOT.

- I do not think the failure was due to a puncture and normal leaking air.

- I understand "Occam's razor" but it helps if you understand the physics of tire failure.

- This was not a "Bloeout" due to loosing air. The tire loas air because the belt was torn off the tire. See THIS post

- If both front tires showed tread surface damage then I vote for the front tires were turned and did not re-center. This may be a function of front end "self-Align-Torque" being too low when the engine (power steering) is not running. So if the tires get turned too far from straight, as when doing tight turns on the road, they may not come back to straight.

- Post #51 is not a "Blowout" i.e. Run Low Sidewall Felx Failure but is a Belt separation.

- If you do not know the real reason for a failure your "fix" may not eliminate the problem.

- Picture in #52 further convinces me that yor front tires were turned to the right

- I like the suggestion in post #63