Community Forums

hoosierrun · 08-10-2021, 04:56 PM

Uphill loading is only a concern if your baseplate/towbar is near the braking point.. i.e stress fractures like I had, which were not visible. If it is going to break, it is more likely to occur on an uphill grade.

The stress fractures do develop by hard braking, quick acceleration, and primarily by rough roads... pot holes, bridge transitions, permafrost push ups, and railroad crossings.... basically anything that provides a quick jolt to the towing system.

AKIQPilot · 08-10-2021, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosierrun

When you are on flat ground, you are pulling the vehicle and the forces needed to overcome are mostly wheel tire and bearing friction and wind resistance. There is not much stress on the towing components. When you are going uphill, you have the weight of the vehicle added to the above. The affect of gravity pulling the toad back puts tremendous stress on the towing components. A weakened base plate or towbar can literally be pulled off the back of the rig if the system has any stress fractures in the steel.

In the picture you saw, the baseplate snapped due to metal fatigue and the entire baseplate fell to the ground with the towbar attached. Actually, the left side (as viewed in the picture), still had a bolt keeping it up, but the steel was all split around it. That drop was enough for the break-a-way cable to pull and activate the brakes. Here are some pictures of the steel cracks.

From the looks of the rust in the steel and the rust on the bolts that baseplate had been cracked for a long time.

hoosierrun · 08-10-2021, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIQPilot

From the looks of the rust in the steel and the rust on the bolts that baseplate had been cracked for a long time.

Not that I could tell. The rust occurred from rain/moisture when driving the vehicle back from CA to FL (i.e., after the breakage). That vehicle (in the picture) was in Lassen Volcanic National Park. AAA towed it to the visitors center and between that driver and myself, we dismantled the entire front end to the point where it was drivable. I drove the toad and wife drove the RV. We drove into Reno to U-Haul and attempted to rent a dolly 1 way for the trip back to FL. It didn't work. With the bike rack on the back, I had just a couple of inches of clearance to the pavement. A full trailer (very expensive) would have overloaded my rig. We drove separately, but of course, hit a lot of rain. That started the rusting process that you see. All the pieces were sent back to the manufacturer at their expense. They determined the cause to be stress fractures in the steel due to rough roads. They sent a revised (strengthened) base plate and covered my expenses.

BTW, baseplate was only 2-1/2 years old.

LarryJB · 08-10-2021, 05:29 PM

For me, it is a no Brainer to have a toad braking. What a have not seen mentioned is the insurance issue. If you happen to have an accident that is your fault, especially in a state where toad braking is required, good luck getting your insurance to pay for your damages. I would think in some circumstances even if you were not at fault, but it was determined that you could have avoided the accident by stopping sooner, you could be held liable. That alone is reason enough to get toad brakes.

AKIQPilot · 08-10-2021, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosierrun

Not that I could tell. The rust occurred from rain/moisture when driving the vehicle back from CA to FL (i.e., after the breakage). That vehicle (in the picture) was in Lassen Volcanic National Park. AAA towed it to the visitors center and between that driver and myself, we dismantled the entire front end to the point where it was drivable. I drove the toad and wife drove the RV. We drove into Reno to U-Haul and attempted to rent a dolly 1 way for the trip back to FL. It didn't work. With the bike rack on the back, I had just a couple of inches of clearance to the pavement. A full trailer (very expensive) would have overloaded my rig. We drove separately, but of course, hit a lot of rain. That started the rusting process that you see. All the pieces were sent back to the manufacturer at their expense. They determined the cause to be stress fractures in the steel due to rough roads. They sent a revised (strengthened) base plate and covered my expenses.

BTW, baseplate was only 2-1/2 years old.

Maybe they salt the roads where you live? Those rusted bolts look way more than 2.5 years old. Bolts like that on my coach don't have any rust even after a decade.

I'm glad your situation didn't turn out worse. I think most of us fear what might happen if our towbar or connecting mechanism were to fail while at highway speeds. No amount of safety chains/cables or braking system could prepare us for the terror that we would feel if this were to happen. I would almost rather have a front tire blow out than lose a towbar or baseplate connection. Obviously I wouldn't want either but.......

Thanks for sharing your broken baseplate issue. Maybe it will prompt all of us to take a closer look at our toad connection before the next trip and every trip after.

mdewenter · 08-10-2021, 05:52 PM

You may want to call your insurance provider and see what their opinion is.

RVtravelz · 08-10-2021, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryJB

good luck getting your insurance to pay for your damages.

Insurance companies cannot deny payment on a claim because someone makes a bad decision. They can however choose to not renew their policy.

hoosierrun · 08-10-2021, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKIQPilot

Maybe they salt the roads where you live? Those rusted bolts look way more than 2.5 years old. Bolts like that on my coach don't have any rust even after a decade.

I'm glad your situation didn't turn out worse. I think most of us fear what might happen if our towbar or connecting mechanism were to fail while at highway speeds. No amount of safety chains/cables or braking system could prepare us for the terror that we would feel if this were to happen. I would almost rather have a front tire blow out than lose a towbar or baseplate connection. Obviously I wouldn't want either but.......

Thanks for sharing your broken baseplate issue. Maybe it will prompt all of us to take a closer look at our toad connection before the next trip and every trip after.

Yes, it was a terrifying experience that could have been far worst. In my part of Florida there is no salt used and I don't live adjacent to the shores. I had a lot of discussion with the baseplate manufacturer about this incident. Almost every vehicle of different make has its own unique design. As was mentioned earlier in this thread (or another similar one) many modern cars have so much stuff packed in around the structural steel frame (wires, computers, AC lines, and fuel lines) that it can be a challenge to come up with a rock solid design that has been proven to stand the test of time. Don't forget the air bag crash sensors and all that emissions stuff, they have to work around those too. I would say most baseplates are pretty solid, but once in a while there is a bad design that combined with rough roads can develop these stress fractures.

.... so back to the braking systems, don't leave home in a toad without one.

AKIQPilot · 08-10-2021, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoosierrun

Yes, it was a terrifying experience that could have been far worst. In my part of Florida there is no salt used and I don't live adjacent to the shores. I had a lot of discussion with the baseplate manufacturer about this incident. Almost every vehicle of different make has its own unique design. As was mentioned earlier in this thread (or another similar one) many modern cars have so much stuff packed in around the structural steel frame (wires, computers, AC lines, and fuel lines) that it can be a challenge to come up with a rock solid design that has been proven to stand the test of time. Don't forget the air bag crash sensors and all that emissions stuff, they have to work around those too. I would say most baseplates are pretty solid, but once in a while there is a bad design that combined with rough roads can develop these stress fractures.

.... so back to the braking systems, don't leave home in a toad without one.

Agreed. When set up properly they work and can make the difference between stopping and avoiding a bigger problem or not stopping in time. Glad I have one for the Wrangler.

bowhunter72 · 08-13-2021, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullitt6283

For those who think they do not need a toad braking system, why are you thinking about this? Cost?

If you think you might 'get away with' not having a brake system in the toad, think about this: If you have a complete breakaway, and your toad creams a vehicle in the oncoming lane, how would you feel about your decision?

Or how about this: You have to panic-brake because some miscreant didn't know how to merge, and if you could have slowed down just a little bit more, a lot of damage could have been averted and you could still have had a vacation....

.

As a truck driver for 13 years, i learned to never panic brake, take them out if need be, panic braking can cause a way worse accident.

bowhunter72 · 08-14-2021, 12:02 AM

I have a DP, i rarely touch my brakes on any hill, thats what my Jake is for.

Bullitt6283 · 08-14-2021, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowhunter72

As a truck driver for 13 years, i learned to never panic brake, take them out if need be, panic braking can cause a way worse accident.

I agree with you that "panic braking" if defined as suddenly applying brakes just as hard as possible, might result in loss of control.
An experienced driver knows how hard the brakes can be used and still retain control. If the toad's brakes contribute to the available stopping power, versus a toad without brakes, that's a good thing.

.

natgild1 · 08-15-2021, 03:10 PM

State laws frequently prohibit towing a trailer/vehicle over a given weight without trailer brakes. In California I believe it is 1500lbs.

Bedlam · 08-15-2021, 03:30 PM

I have a 3k lb flat bed (no brakes) typically loaded at 2500 lbs and a 10k lb enclosed trailer (electric drum) typically loaded at 8000 lbs. Although I can feel the smaller trailer slightly push the RV more in a quick stop, it was never enough to give concern. Long downgrades are still held by engine braking even with the big trailer, so brake use is not much different.