Towed base plate failure

[deputydog]

Originally Posted by racer26

You information is absolutely correct except this is a 04 VW Beetle made in Mexico I doubt any metal in this entire car except motor parts is carbon steel. Half the car is plastic. I look at it like if it was at a body shop it would not have been as good of job as I did. The hole job cost me less than $5.

My first car was a 1974 Super Beetle. I loved that car. Wish I still had it. Back then they actually made them out of real metal, although a funny story:

My business partner had a probably late 60's Beetle. Had a rattle in the door since new so he took it to the dealer and insisted they remove the interior panel and find the rattle. When they did they found a coke bottle inside the door and the inner side of the outside panel still had the print of an advertising sign (can't remember what it was). True story! Guess it was made on late friday or early monday morning .

[Talloaks]

From the Roadmaster Owners manual:

• Inspect the system before towing — check the
mounts, brackets, fasteners, bolts, wiring, the safety cables
and all other components each time before towing.
Additionally, check the tow bar baseplate every 3,000
miles — inspect for any fractures or cracks in the steel, or
any visible damage. Do not tow if the tow bar baseplate
is damaged.
Additionally, check the torque on all bolts. (To find the
torque ratings, refer to the installation instructions for the
baseplate and the tow bar.)

Curious how many users are aware of this.

John Anderson
2007 Country Coach Tribute CAT C9
2012 Ford Edge Toad
2007 BMW K1200LT Hannigan trike conversion

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Talloaks

From the Roadmaster Owners manual:



• Inspect the system before towing — check the

mounts, brackets, fasteners, bolts, wiring, the safety cables

and all other components each time before towing.

Additionally, check the tow bar baseplate every 3,000

miles — inspect for any fractures or cracks in the steel, or

any visible damage. Do not tow if the tow bar baseplate

is damaged.

Additionally, check the torque on all bolts. (To find the

torque ratings, refer to the installation instructions for the

baseplate and the tow bar.)



Curious how many users are aware of this.



John Anderson

2007 Country Coach Tribute CAT C9

2012 Ford Edge Toad

2007 BMW K1200LT Hannigan trike conversion

Yeah, so I’m supposed to remove my car’s front fascia each time before I tow so I can access the bolts to check the torque? That’s a CYA requirement in some part and would never withstand scrutiny.

If they wanted it done for real, the manual would specify an interval for everything major like the 3,000 miles. The rest could be required on a per-trip basis IF the manufacturer actually provided the inspection procedures with pictures of what to look for.

All of that being said, I just love to read people who post “Loctite? I’ve never used Loctite and my ________________ has never failed!”

“Yet”, it has not failed “yet”.

Ray

[Talloaks]

"If they wanted it done for real, the manual would specify an interval for everything major like the 3,000 miles."

Actually, if you read the post, it does specify 3000 miles for some actions, and others to be performed every time before towing.

"That’s a CYA requirement in some part and would never withstand scrutiny."

It would help if you cited some cases or included your legal credentials. Most people would prefer the legal counsel of an experienced attorney rather than a opinion posted on an RV forum.

Regardless of whether you like the information placed by the manufacturer in the installer's and owner's manual. it carries weight in court and you need to be aware of it. Some people, including many who post on this forum, like to push their equipment to the limits and potentially beyond. When one ignores the manufacturer's requirements for use of their equipment, it cannot be assumed that rated towing capacities are valid, much less any presumed safety factor. You own the risk.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Talloaks

"If they wanted it done for real, the manual would specify an interval for everything major like the 3,000 miles."

Actually, if you read the post, it does specify 3000 miles for some actions, and others to be performed every time before towing.

I did read the post which is why I wrote "the 3,000 miles".

"That’s a CYA requirement in some part and would never withstand scrutiny."

It would help if you cited some cases or included your legal credentials. Most people would prefer the legal counsel of an experienced attorney rather than a opinion posted on an RV forum.

I've paid too many attorneys throughout the years because of invalid wording that some company tried to enforce, and even one government entity. I prevailed in them all but only the government one went to trial (federal court) where I also prevailed, a 42 USC 1983 action. The rest caved without any suit being filed or threatened. I even have a family full of attorneys, seven to be exact, that willingly offer their perspective on things. One was the General Counsel for a couple of the "big box" stores that we've all used and he knows all of the angles. Free competent legal advice is a good thing.

Regardless of whether you like the information placed by the manufacturer in the installer's and owner's manual. it carries weight in court and you need to be aware of it. Some people, including many who post on this forum, like to push their equipment to the limits and potentially beyond. When one ignores the manufacturer's requirements for use of their equipment, it cannot be assumed that rated towing capacities are valid, much less any presumed safety factor. You own the risk.

It's probably a shared risk because the incident would have to be 100% my doing and that rarely occurs in real life. All it takes is one case the manufacturer was aware of where the same failure occurred and no ratings were exceeded. Or even just internal docs or emails where the possibility was discussed. We're both entitled to our opinions, though.

But when a manufacturer says to "inspect" something there has to be an objective criteria especially when it's a direct-to-consumer product and especially where life safety is involved.

For example, visually checking for cracking is usually worthless unless it's an imminent catastrophic failure. Non-destructive testing procedures such as magnetic particle inspection, ultrasound, or the use of dye penetrants are valid methods for performing crack inspections but those require years of training and experience, and are not something a consumer is expected to understand, use, and be competent at. (I suspect this is why Blue Ox has a hard lifetime of ten years on their products. And good for them.)

Otherwise "inspect" is a subjective requirement and open to interpretation.

No inspection procedures defined means I can inspect it any way I want, which will vary from person to person based on their level of expertise. I spent a quarter-century in aviation maintenance and aviation is full of cases where accidents occurred because the manufacturer's inspection procedures were deficient.

As my first attorney so eloquently put it:

A person who does not know their rights has no rights.

And no, I am not anywhere near a litigious person. But I am a person who knows their rights and when someone is trying to trample on them. I never wanted that level of "education" but life happened. When you offer a product for sale you need to reasonably stand behind it.

Ray

[Treetop Flyer]

I’m well aware of what Roadmaster states in their instructions. I installed their baseplates on my 2016 GMC Canyon.

Red loctite was used on all bolts.
All bolts were torqued to Roadmasters instructions.

I inspect for baseplate looseness every time I put the inserts into the baseplates by wiggling them side to side and up and down.

Their requirement to check the torque on the bolts is not realistic based on it requiring the entire front fascia of the truck to be removed.

We’ve towed this vehicle about 6K since I completed the installation last August. I recently found a loose baseplate on the passenger side after a day of towing.

After several hours of removing everything on the truck required to inspect the baseplates I found quite a bit of damage to both of the trucks frame horns. There was also damage to both baseplates and the factory cross bar that GMC installs between the frame horns.

Both welding shops indicated it appears the steel frame horns are of too light a gauge and not sufficiently braced to accommodate the intended use of the baseplates.

The repair bill is estimated to be $500-$600. It’s in the shop and should be completed sometime tomorrow. I’m sure at that point I’ll have at least another 1/2 day reinstalling the baseplates per Roadmasters installation instructions and putting the truck back together.

Sorry to be so long winded but I’m pissed. This could have been a catastrophic failure. It also requires a considerable amount of time and money to modify and repair the truck.

Roadmasters should have come up with a better design to accommodate this vehicle and who knows how many other vehicles for the intended use.

[NXR]

Originally Posted by Treetop Flyer

I’m well aware of what Roadmaster states in their instructions. I installed their baseplates on my 2016 GMC Canyon.

Red loctite was used on all bolts.
All bolts were torqued to Roadmasters instructions.

I inspect for baseplate looseness every time I put the inserts into the baseplates by wiggling them side to side and up and down.

Their requirement to check the torque on the bolts is not realistic based on it requiring the entire front fascia of the truck to be removed.

We’ve towed this vehicle about 6K since I completed the installation last August. I recently found a loose baseplate on the passenger side after a day of towing.

After several hours of removing everything on the truck required to inspect the baseplates I found quite a bit of damage to both of the trucks frame horns. There was also damage to both baseplates and the factory cross bar that GMC installs between the frame horns.

Both welding shops indicated it appears the steel frame horns are of too light a gauge and not sufficiently braced to accommodate the intended use of the baseplates.

The repair bill is estimated to be $500-$600. It’s in the shop and should be completed sometime tomorrow. I’m sure at that point I’ll have at least another 1/2 day reinstalling the baseplates per Roadmasters installation instructions and putting the truck back together.

Sorry to be so long winded but I’m pissed. This could have been a catastrophic failure. It also requires a considerable amount of time and money to modify and repair the truck.

Roadmasters should have come up with a better design to accommodate this vehicle and who knows how many other vehicles for the intended use.

I looked at the Roadmaster EZ5 baseplate, the Blue Ox baseplate and the Demco tabless baseplate videos for my new Equinox.

The Roadmaster was the only one of the three that did not come with backup safety cables in case the baseplate failed somehow. It picked up one existing subframe bolt on each side and used four of their own bolts to secure the baseplate to a flange.

The Blue Ox requires that you gently hammer the flange inward so their baseplate will fit. Seriously. It also bolts to that same flange but requires no fascia surgery, a definite plus for resale. I do not remember if/what other attach points it had, though. I lost interest when I saw the hammer requirement.

The Demco also bolts to that flange but also has a second heavy-looking plate that goes between the bumper and the frame using the four bumper bolts on each side, at the top, and then also bolts to their baseplate as a secondary attach point at the bottom.

So the Demco arrives tomorrow and then I’ll see how it all really works.

Ray

[Sbrownstein]

I can tell you that Blue Ox base plates are TOUGH. Going across a cross street at maybe 25 mph rear end went up and toad went down. Tow bar bent the two attachment points. The forks are still removable and the tow bar is fine. Cross members are undisturbed, bar is tight and all welds are crack free. 1" steel box section distorted. I can lift the Toad with a bottle jack under either fork and nothing moves. Of course Blue Ox says replace everything. Replaced the clevis pins just to be sure and added a 4" drop hitch to restore the less than 3 inch drop from the coach to the toad. 3000 miles later all is well.

When I get back east will take the front off the Enclave, cut the bottom walls of the 1 inch box attachments, bend the box back up and weld 1/8 inch bar stock over the gaps that result from bending back.

I installed the base plates myself. They are solid.

[hoosierrun]

I have had two Roadmaster base plates fail. For the first one, they admitted bad design, sent me a revised base plate, paid half the cost of repairs to my vehicle, and sent me a new towbar. 2 years later the revised base plate broke 1/4 of the way on my drive from the East coast to the West coast. We had reservations at the Grand Canyon which were difficult to get (2020 reservations cancelled due to COVID). No way were we going to give those up, so my wife and I drove separately using walkie talkies. I am so upset with Roadmaster. It is the poor steel, welds, and bad design. All bolts are tight and in-place and were properly torqued with Loctite used. It is simply metal fatigue. Everything was inspected before we started the trip and no signs of impending failure were noted. We are still on the trip, returning to Florida and I will begin the process of tearing down and photographing everything. I can see a broken metal bracket by flexing back the plastic bumper clip. I'm not even a structural engineer, but can see that the constant up and down bouncing will eventually fatigue and break the steel supports. I will probably try a Blue Ox or Demco base plate next.

[CWSWine]

I have had both Roadmaster and BlueOX baseplates and have seen what I suspect beginning of damage/loosening of the mounts. I have decided that I won't use a baseplate that doesn't have a support between the two attachment points. I believe they flex inward during towing and that whats causes them fail. That is just my personnel thoughts and not based in any facts other then what I have seen.

[Sbrownstein]

Originally Posted by CWSWine

I have decided that I won't use a baseplate that doesn't have a support between the two attachment points. I believe they flex inward during towing and that whats causes them fail. That is just my personnel thoughts...

You mean there are baseplates that don't come with a steel box section welded between the attachment points???? That is an accident waiting to happen. My Blue Ox not only has a steel box but also has two steel safety cables that wrap around the box and the chassis...just in case.

[Bikinjim]

Originally Posted by Sbrownstein

You mean there are baseplates that don't come with a steel box section welded between the attachment points???? That is an accident waiting to happen. My Blue Ox not only has a steel box but also has two steel safety cables that wrap around the box and the chassis...just in case.

Some baseplates attach to vehicle cross-section structures rather than use a welded cross section between the two attachment points. But, yes, a cross section connection is important. The dynamics of towing without that cross section tie (pulling and pushing two independent baseplates as the toad is accelerated and de accelerated by the Motorhome) will eventually fatigue the underlying vehicle structure. The Blue Ox baseplate I put on my 2015 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk consisted of two independent baseplates without any crosstie and after about 25 to 30k miles of towing the car’s subframe aluminum members fractured which resulted in a dangerous towing condition. Communications with Blue Ox revealed that they had issued a design revision to tie those independent baseplates to the internal steel bumper of the car. However, they refused to recall the remaining original design baseplates still out in the field so I filed a complaint with NHTSA. I posted about the condition and received replies from a number of people who identified a similar or worse condition on their vehicles based on inspecting their baseplates after reading my posts. I also identified several similar failures in Cherokees in campgrounds with that baseplate. My opinion is that mistakes and errors happen but it is how a company responds to those defects that counts. IMHO, Blue Ox did not respond in the appropriate manner by not trying to get those Cherokee baseplates still in operation off the road.

[the sights]

Hello all, From a guy who worked on a welding line that produced GM truck frames till 1997, I am not sure about the quality of your welding skills.

But I know we did not preheat our weld areas as we had about 45 seconds to MIG weld about 4 6 inch beads and trust me the weld would not fail.

Its not that high tech it really isn't

[hoosierrun]

Originally Posted by hoosierrun

I have had two Roadmaster base plates fail. For the first one, they admitted bad design, sent me a revised base plate, paid half the cost of repairs to my vehicle, and sent me a new towbar. 2 years later the revised base plate broke 1/4 of the way on my drive from the East coast to the West coast. We had reservations at the Grand Canyon which were difficult to get (2020 reservations cancelled due to COVID). No way were we going to give those up, so my wife and I drove separately using walkie talkies. I am so upset with Roadmaster. It is the poor steel, welds, and bad design. All bolts are tight and in-place and were properly torqued with Loctite used. It is simply metal fatigue. Everything was inspected before we started the trip and no signs of impending failure were noted. We are still on the trip, returning to Florida and I will begin the process of tearing down and photographing everything. I can see a broken metal bracket by flexing back the plastic bumper clip. I'm not even a structural engineer, but can see that the constant up and down bouncing will eventually fatigue and break the steel supports. I will probably try a Blue Ox or Demco base plate next.

Update on my 2nd Road Master base plate failure: Vehicle is a 2009 RAV 4. I tore down the front bumper, took pictures of the failure and once again contacted Roadmaster. I made contact with the same person that I dealt with when I had my failure in 2018. At that time, they made a design change to add strengthening braces. All was installed and it was fine until this last vacation trip in May this year (2021). On our 2nd day to the Grand Canyon, I noticed the front bumper fascia pulled out about about 1/2 inch and the stone guard showing slight tilt forward. I was able to flex the bumper fascia out a little (fasteners were snapped off) and I could see one of the strengthening brackets snapped in half. Wife and I drove separately for the rest of the trip (over 2000 miles). We had reservations that were made for the 2nd time (all 2020 reservations were cancelled due to COVID) and we were going to the Grand Canyon or bust LOL.

Back home in Florida I began the examination, and took lots of pictures. I could find no problems with the installation. All bolts were tight, the setup was level, and towbar was fine. It was simply metal fatigue from driving on our lousy highways. All pictures were sent to Roadmaster. They showed concern and wanted to find the reason for this failure. They admitted that base plates for a RAV4 are one of their least sold products and they had not seen a failure like mine.

After a couple of days of discussion and review by their design department, they are going to try again. Actually, we had a discussion about my desire to keep the RAV4 because of its age. I sensed that they did not want to make another redesign if there was a chance I might upgrade to a newer vehicle,, plus the market for RAV4 baseplates is almost non-existent. They did tell me if I bought a newer vehicle, they would provide a free baseplate and pay to get it installed. That was pretty enticing, but vehicles of any type, especially those that can be towed 4 down, are particularly difficult to get now and very expensive. Apparently there is a shortage of good used, newer vehicles at this time. I spent some time looking over the failure and made a suggestion to them on an inexpensive way to make a stronger brace. I provided some pictures. They ran it through their design department and agreed to adopt my suggestion. These folks were great and they got right on it. Within 4 days they fabricated new strengthening brackets with some gussets welded on, and as of yesterday they told me a completely new base plate with the new design will be mailed out within a day. I was told to expect 7 to 8 day delivery from Vancouver, Washington to Central Florida. They are also agreeing to replace the damaged bumper reinforcement and some minor hardware. I just need to send in the receipts. All labor and installation costs are on me, but I am a long time mechanic/tech, have all the tools (torque wrenches, Loctite, etc).

Let me see if I can attach some pictures.