Community Forums

sibe · 10-23-2021, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raider47

This topic comes up a lot on RV forums so I asked someone I know who used to investigate accidents as an LE officer. He said that it if it was found to be a contributing factor in the accident, it could find you at fault in the accident. With modern vehicles they can figure out from the software a lot of evidence like when you applied the brakes and how long it took to stop ect. However, it's not much different than if you are speeding and cause an accident as a result. How egregious your violation and how much damage you cause are a consideration. He told me of a specific example where a semi pulled out in front of an overloaded 5th wheel and the 5th wheel drivers stopping distance was increased so he was found at fault where as the semi driver would have been at fault otherwise.

Not derail the original post.. and the points mentoned... dont be stupid, stupid.. follow the industry, design and standards... sticker, manuals,tags are placed in hauler, trailers, MH,, check them out, follow..

Back to if it happens.. Insurance companies with do what they have to, to defer any cost or liability.. If it is just property loss, they weight the cost/loss/recovery and pay, not bid deal..
When there is bodily injury or death... it is another level... game on ..

Being in the repair/towing bix since the late 70's.. I get to see alot..
Every few years I get an inspector come by, ask for permission to a specific vehicle. sometimes with court papers, or law enforcement, or just on there honor/request. These have been from the factory or as a advocate. GM, Ford and Toyota recently..
They say little as they pull vehicle data, photos etc.. one accident the guy mentioned he was there on behalf of GM at a general request by both parties. It was a Thanksgiving morning. He called prior afternoon as delayed from a storm.. I live 2 blocks away, no biggie,,
Anyway.. He mentioned some cool stuff.. He had the state police reconstruction data. That estimated both vehicles traveling at 50-60 mph,
He mentioned data pulled in GM had 56mph when air bag sensor tripped, no brakes applied, The Ford was 53mph , no brakes applied, no steering deflection.. .
GM driver died ,, Ford driver, broken legs, shattered knee and ribs.
I spoke with ford driver weeks later, she said she saw the incoming car reach to change radio, dropped tissue and felt car go left, then she said people where helping and the pain.. The GM driver from recon team and cell records she was dialing phone for a pizza, was leaning to the right in the car,, determined from her injuries etc..
seems both accidently crossed yellow lines and hit dead on mid center mass each vehicle.
I was on scene and it sucked, girl was 18, ford driver was school teacher on way home. knew the girl....

POINT is with new vehicles now,, so much data is recorded, the data is proprietary to manufacturer but can be recalled to courts..
SO FOLLOW the rules...

Isaac-1 · 10-23-2021, 04:20 PM

Or drive an old car

joshuajim · 10-23-2021, 04:46 PM

The manufacturers ratings are intended to be used for warranty purposes not as legal requirements. For example compare a 3/4 vs 1 ton truck. Same weight, same brakes, same engine, same transmission etc. A minor change in suspension is the only difference. Plus license fees which are not relevant.

If you think a 3/4 ton will increase your liability when hauling the same weight as a 1 ton you are mistaken.

Don’t believe the internet EXPERTS!

Toribk · 10-24-2021, 03:53 AM

Joshuajim,

So we can all benefit from it, please share with us your expertise and background in accident reconstruction, civil and criminal litigation and product liability to substantiate your statement.

Thank you.

Winger2 · 10-24-2021, 04:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toribk

Joshuajim,

So we can all benefit from it, please share with us your expertise and background in accident reconstruction, civil and criminal litigation and product liability to substantiate your statement.

Thank you.

Yes, he seems to be an internet expert, lets see his qualifications.

Always a good laugh when a poster slams other posters as pretend experts then posts completely bogus info.

jklingel · 10-24-2021, 09:46 PM

I was hoping someone else thought that post was a little bit nonsensical, or at least was off-topic.

joshuajim · 10-25-2021, 09:21 AM

Toribk and Winger2, perhaps you could enlighten us which Universities you received your LLB degrees from and some Lexis reports on your winning overweight cases

RVtravelz · 10-25-2021, 01:33 PM

We all know that there are F250’s that are factory rated for more capability than some F350 SRW’s. That’s always a fun fact but…
Notice that this question is being posted in the Motorhome Toads section. I think the OP was thinking about toad braking systems versus their weights.
With that in mind, I don’t think there is a mindset out there among general law enforcement to question toad weights. I mean, unless you’re doing something that is obviously over the top, like pulling a school bus behind your class A for instance.

jklingel · 10-25-2021, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVtravelz

...I think the OP was thinking about toad braking systems versus their weights.
With that in mind, I don’t think there is a mindset out there among general law enforcement to question toad weights. I mean, unless you’re doing something that is obviously over the top, like pulling a school bus behind your class A for instance.

Roger that. Braking, or not, and toad weight is what I was thinking. Regardless of the mindset of cops, the concerns are (A) avoiding a mishap that could, at the very least, be a PITA and (B) avoid getting involved in a lawsuit, which could be a pain in the LIFE. Getting a ticket is trivia; those make you tougher (Wait.... maybe extra pushups at practice do that....) So, after reading and thinking, my mind is set; brakes on ANYTHING over a 4-wheeler and trailer. Even then.... Hmmm. Dunno.

Winger2 · 10-26-2021, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuajim

Toribk and Winger2, perhaps you could enlighten us which Universities you received your LLB degrees from and some Lexis reports on your winning overweight cases

Although some believe it, ignorance of the law does not save one.
In a catastrophic event, accident reconstruction will determine, speeds, accelerating or braking, distances and yes, they will take into consideration weights on a vehicle and towing capacities.
We will not even get into what a civil attorney will do to you.

My classifications are common sense and a few friends that are attorneys, very qualified attorneys.

TMac99 · 10-28-2021, 02:42 PM

I think you'd be guilty of negligence for taking legal advice from a bunch of strangers on the internet, but that's just me.

Oldboots1950 · 10-28-2021, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jklingel

If you tow knowing that you are exceeding the manufacturer's allowable limit for an non-braked trailer, are you legally liable if you are in an accident and found at fault because of said "negligence"? Also, the same question for exceeding the OCCC of the coach, no toad involved. Anyone know, or is it a "it depends" thing? Thanks. j

You answered your question yourself.

Toutsi · 10-28-2021, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jklingel

If you tow knowing that you are exceeding the manufacturer's allowable limit for an non-braked trailer, are you legally liable if you are in an accident and found at fault because of said "negligence"? Also, the same question for exceeding the OCCC of the coach, no toad involved. Anyone know, or is it a "it depends" thing? Thanks. j

If you knowingly execute an act in contradiction with the laws or any government regulations and you hurt or kill somebody you may be criminally hold responsible for such an act with all the consequences this act may carry including going to jail and or be sued.

Mitziebikes · 10-28-2021, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jklingel

If you tow knowing that you are exceeding the manufacturer's allowable limit for an non-braked trailer, are you legally liable if you are in an accident and found at fault because of said "negligence"? Also, the same question for exceeding the OCCC of the coach, no toad involved. Anyone know, or is it a "it depends" thing? Thanks. j

My question is why would you even tow something over the limit? Buy the right damn tow vehicle or a trailer that weighs less. Can't afford to do things correct and be within the law, stay home on the porch..