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Old 10-22-2020, 09:40 AM   #1
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Vacuum assist- toad braking

I have been thinking how our 2019 Equinox behaves when I first start towing
it.
We have a Freetwood Discovery with airbrakes.
The first brake use, using a Brakemaster, really pulls on the coach due to the vacuum assisted brakes in the Equinox. This goes away after the first or second braking.
I was wondering if any one had installed a vacuum boost pump to maintain
sufficient vacuum to continue to operate the toad brakes.
Amazon sells such pumps at a reasonable price.
Would think this addition would reduce stopping distances and increase safety.
Regards,
JimB
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Old 10-22-2020, 11:21 AM   #2
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I believe your brake system is designed to work without vacuum assist.

In order to get to that mode you need to operate the car brakes a couple of times to bleed off the existing vacuum before you start driving.

As you mentioned way to much braking force is applied when vacuum assist is still present
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Old 10-22-2020, 02:16 PM   #3
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I agree that my Roadmaster Brakemaster is designed to operate without
any assist from the Equinox brake system: IE: the vacuum boost

However, when I have used the brakes with the assist from the Equinox
system, the result was impressive.
Do you believe it is not possible to provide a vacuum boost to the Equinox/
Regards,
JimB
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Old 10-22-2020, 03:32 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBDISCOVERY View Post
I agree that my Roadmaster Brakemaster is designed to operate without
any assist from the Equinox brake system: IE: the vacuum boost

However, when I have used the brakes with the assist from the Equinox
system, the result was impressive.
Do you believe it is not possible to provide a vacuum boost to the Equinox/
Regards,
JimB
The Demco Stay-IN-Play DUO has its own pump that powers up the vacuum power assist.

NSA, the makers of the Readybrake, offer a $400 add-on pump for people that want one. It looks like it just maintains the vacuum independently of their braking system so it could work for you: https://www.readybrake.com/store/p20...cuum_Pump.html

Honestly, you should never feel the car trying to stop the motorhome. You have no idea how much drag in pounds that the car is putting on the tow bar and hitch when it does. I'd be concerned that you might damage the hitch, the tow bar and maybe even the baseplate.

A properly adjusted toad brake system shouldn't really add much stress to those components. A proportional braking system like the Brakemaster should also help not over-stress anything while also not allowing the mass of the car to increase your stopping distance.

It looks like your GVWR may be just under 25,000 pounds? If so, you would have a 3,600 pound car grabbing a tiger by its tail, metaphorically speaking.

FWIW,

Ray
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Old 10-22-2020, 05:43 PM   #5
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I would ask Brakemaster your question, as each system is designed to operate differently. I've always questioned how effective a brake system can be if it pulls/pushes on a dead pedal.

For that reason, I installed the AF1 unit that provides vacuum to the brake booster for a proportional braking pull/push.

Again, Brakemaster can probably best explain how theirs is designed and may even tell you to bleed down the vacuum before driving off.
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Old 10-22-2020, 07:14 PM   #6
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One result of what you are wanting will be worn, flat spotted tires on the Equinox in just a few thousand towed miles. Those braking systems are designed to work without vacuum boost. When vacuum boost is added the braking system will over brake the Equinox.
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Old 10-22-2020, 08:25 PM   #7
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You're supposed to bleed off the vacuum.

I can tell you without doubt that the Brakemaster can stop a motorhome on a flat surface and it takes a while. I've done it. But you don't want to be doing that in anything other than an emergency situation. If you're going to have the Brakemaster push against powered brakes you'll tear something up..hitch, tow bar, baseplate, toad brakes, tires etc.
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Old 10-22-2020, 09:08 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhicks View Post
You're supposed to bleed off the vacuum.

I can tell you without doubt that the Brakemaster can stop a motorhome on a flat surface and it takes a while. I've done it. But you don't want to be doing that in anything other than an emergency situation. If you're going to have the Brakemaster push against powered brakes you'll tear something up..hitch, tow bar, baseplate, toad brakes, tires etc.
T'is odd, though. If it's truly a proportional system (although it does say "proportionate") the system should be adjusting the car's braking based on the rate of the deceleration.

It sounds like that system instead says "You step on the motorhome brakes 3/4 of max pedal deflection? I'm pulling the car's brake pedals 3/4 as well."

But unless the system has some way to know whether the car is pushing or pulling on the motorhome I don't know how any system can modulate the braking. The NSA Readybrake, being a surge type of brake, could determine that but they also require that the vacuum be bled off first as well.

Ray
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