350 vs 450

[pushtrk99]

Is there a big difference between the Ford 350 chassis compared to 450 chassis & what is your opinion of Four Winds Class C

[DavidEM]

I assume you are talking about new chassis as it changed with the introduction of the new Ford V8 in 2021.

See https://thecampingadvisor.com/differ...e350-and-e450/ for an explanation of the differences.

David

[pushtrk99]

David I/We are in the market for an older $12,000 MH so I am looking at 1995- 1997 MH- I do know they are out there , just got to be in the right place at the right time- I already missed one because I wanted a day to think about it-It was gone the next day Tks Rich

[NLOVNIT]

Thanks too, for the link. I'm researching my next RV & deciding between used on a 350/new on 450 was one of my points of interest.

[kenandterry]

Originally Posted by DavidEM

I assume you are talking about new chassis as it changed with the introduction of the new Ford V8 in 2021.

See https://thecampingadvisor.com/differ...e350-and-e450/ for an explanation of the differences.

David

I get sceptical when I see technical reports that have blatant and obvious errors right from the start.

1. Does nobody notice the lead photo is flipped backwards?
All the writing is backwards on a motorhome with the entry door on the wrong side of a vehicle? Seriously? If they can’t proof this much, what else might be wrong?

2. The vehicle posted is an old generation Ford E350 or E450. They don’t even look like that anymore. Will the info within be as old and outdated?

First impressions for me anyway.

[bigb56]

Originally Posted by kenandterry

I get sceptical when I see technical reports that have blatant and obvious errors right from the start.

1. Does nobody notice the lead photo is flipped backwards?
All the writing is backwards on a motorhome with the entry door on the wrong side of a vehicle? Seriously? If they can’t proof this much, what else might be wrong?

2. The vehicle posted is an old generation Ford E350 or E450. They don’t even look like that anymore. Will the info within be as old and outdated?

First impressions for me anyway.

You mean like this? A 2.4l in a 450? Did that really happen?

[Ron Dittmer]

Originally Posted by pushtrk99

We are in the market for an older $12,000 MH so I am looking at 1995- 1997 MH- I do know they are out there , just got to be in the right place at the right time- I already missed one because I wanted a day to think about it-It was gone the next day Tks Rich

Hi Rich,

In the case with the Ford E350/E450 chassis, if at all possible, I strongly suggest you "up" your model year to at least a 1998 to get the 6.8L-V10 engine for a number of good reasons. The exhaust manifold problems go away along with gaining power & also improved fuel economy. If you can, up to a 2006 model to get the TorqShift transmission with an extra gear for improved behavior, more power at the rear tires, and again improved fuel economy.

Now for the differences between an E350 and E450 chassis between 1998 and 2007. The E350 chassis is good in the shorter lengths from 20 to 25 feet. We have a 2007 E350 chassis with our 23'-8" long rig HERE The E450 is better, most especially in the longer lengths. Generally speaking, the longer, the heavier so the E450's heavier-duty hydraulic power braking system and slightly bigger brakes along with a slightly thicker frame applies well. The E450 of that vintage also has it's parking brake at the drive shaft, more applicable for the heavier application. The E350 braking system is modeled like a typical car with a vacuum-assist power brake booster and cabled parking brake to the rear wheels. The slightly thinner gauge steel frame is fine because of the shorter wheel base. E350 or E450, having a standard 138", 158" or 176" wheel base assures the frame was not cut and extended by an outfitter. Such modifications can sometimes become finicky with age. It's also going to be harder to find those unique components required to modify the wheel base such as parking brake cables, wire harnesses, fuel lines, drive shaft, and exhaust pipe.

I feel the ideal combination would be to have an unmodified E450 chassis (138", 158", 176" wheel base) in a short motorhome, but making sure to replace the front coil springs with softer ones LIKE I DID HERE, and remove a few rear leaf springs to better match your actual load. Doing so would soften the ride appropriately. Otherwise it will feel like you are driving an empty box truck, thrashing around your house, contents, and people. The harsher the ride for the house, the more things will shake, crack, break, breach, and leak, not to mention all the noise.

The one advantage the E350 has over the E450 in the shorter lengths is the rear differential. It's gear ratio is different than the E450, geared for a lighter load, reducing engine RPMs further improving fuel economy. I closely logged in our fuel purchases on a 5000 mile trip in our 2007 E350 aerodynamic rig HERE. From Chicago to the west coast and everywhere in-between, our over-all trip fuel economy was 10.5mpg. I did limit our highway cruising speed to 60 MPH, intentionally done to determine our best gas mileage possible.

[CharlesinGA]

Another very minor difference is that the width of the rear Axle/track on the E450 is about 1 inch wider than the E350. I stumbled onto this in some Ford specs a couple of years ago.

The issue with the photo being reversed is not unusual, I see it all the time on Youtube and on web sites. I think it is being done intentionally to prevent the Google bots from detecting it as a match for where ever it was stolen from, as it was probably a copyrighted image originally.

Charles

[THenne1713]

Pretty sure (memory?) from Bodybuilder Manual that GVWR higher w/ 450, but have not compared parts such as springs, brake rotors, axles that will tell the tale. I do not believe it is different engines on same chassis, but maybe wrong?

[Ron Dittmer]

Originally Posted by CharlesinGA

Another very minor difference is that the width of the rear Axle/track on the E450 is about 1 inch wider than the E350. I stumbled onto this in some Ford specs a couple of years ago.
Charles

Yes indeed. I failed to include that.

I am sure there are other subtle differences not yet mentioned.

[RobfromLA]

The E350 has Dana70HD (32 spline) 4.10 gear ratio. The E450 has Super 70HD (35 spline) With 4.56 ratio. The GVW is higher on the E450. If you’re gonna do any towing I recommend the E450. just sold my E350 class C 2021 and looking to upgrade to an E450. was doing a lot of heavy towing the E350 was not up to the job. The rear springs are weak , added air bags. The E450 frame is heavier duty and it has bigger and more springs in the rear. The 7.3 gas was good but Needed more gear with the double overdrive six speed auto. Constantly downshifting on the hills. Hated the combination.

[RangerZ]

Originally Posted by RobfromLA

The E350 has Dana70HD (32 spline) 4.10 gear ratio. The E450 has Super 70HD (35 spline) With 4.56 ratio. The GVW is higher on the E450. If you’re gonna do any towing I recommend the E450. just sold my E350 class C 2021 and looking to upgrade to an E450. was doing a lot of heavy towing the E350 was not up to the job. The rear springs are weak , added air bags. The E450 frame is heavier duty and it has bigger and more springs in the rear. The 7.3 gas was good but Needed more gear with the double overdrive six speed auto. Constantly downshifting on the hills. Hated the combination.

Did they change the gear ratio since going to the new engine and transmission? My 2019 350 has 4.56 but it could be a option that’s some dealers order idk

[Ron Dittmer]

Originally Posted by RangerZ

Did they change the gear ratio since going to the new engine and transmission? My 2019 350 has 4.56 but it could be a option that’s some dealers order idk

I could have my information a bit skewed, but I understood when the typical E150, E250, and E350 van were discontinued, Ford soon standardized on a common rear axle ratio for the E350 & E450 cut-away and stripped chassis. The decision was in-part because the 6-speed transmission picked up the slack.

For reference, our rig HERE built on a 2007 E350-V10 with 5-speed, weighs in on trips at just 50 pounds less than it's 11,500 GVWR. Most often we tow a 4300 pound Jeep Liberty. My point being, the chassis is working pretty much at capacity most of the time.

Does the chassis do it's job? Yes!
Does it do it's job well? Yes!
Are the drive train behaviorals ideal? Surely Not!
Why? The transmission down-shifts and up-shifts sooner than I feel it should.
Is that the end of the world? No!

One thing concerning "At Capacity" operation, the ride smooths out fairly well. If our rig HERE was built on an E450 chassis, I would be very tempted to remove a rear leaf spring (or more) to closer match the "true working" load. I did something identical in-concept to our front suspension, project details HERE.

[Phil G.]

We have a 24 ft. Class C on an E450 chassis which I looked for intentionally when we bought it new, even though the E350 chassis would have handled the overall weight of the motorhome.

I wanted "chassis overkill" for the added overall reliability, ruggedness, stability and slow speed crawling ability when driving offroad (we're rockhounds).

I removed most of the under-loading stiffness in the rear by installing automatic-damping shock absorbers in the rear that adjust to soft damping when traversing rapid roadway bumps, and adjust to heavy duty stiff damping on slower occcuring side forces such as those from curves, passing vehicles and when entering parking lots.

This combination has been served us well over the years. As an added bonus we can load the motorhome as much as we want and in any way we want for trips without giving it any thought - with no change in handling when underway.

I would not know how to achieve what we have if purchasing a new small Class C today, due to the various type chassis they're typically offered on now. The Ford E450 cutaway is about the only choice that I can see if one wants some over-built strength under a small Class C coach.