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CaptainSkip · 03-19-2025, 02:26 PM

Not a happy camper…….we bought our Entegra Odyssey 29V last spring and now have 10,000 miles on it. We drove to Florida and back from January through March and both my wife and I found that we were constantly fighting with the steering pulling to the right, so I planned on having the front end aligned again when we got back home.

When we returned home two weeks ago we had a letter from Ford waiting for us advising of a Customer Satisfaction Program to examine and secure the shift lever cable, it is CSP 24B68. I figured while I was getting that taken care of I would also have the front end aligned and the annual state inspection done. The local Ford dealer near my home won’t work on anything as large as a motorhome so I found another Ford dealer several towns away who would. I made an appointment to have the CSP done as well as the state inspection and front end alignment.

I brought the RV down last Thursday, the 13th at midday. I know that a front end alignment can take two or three hours so I came prepared to wait a while. A short time later I was advised that the alignment could not be done that day as one of the items I requested was to have the caster settings changed from the factory setting to at least a +6 degree angle to improve the steering. I was told that the necessary bushings to change the caster would need to be ordered and that the alignment could take up to six hours due to the need to test drive it to obtain the best adjustment.. They would have the bushings available the next day but I had a conflict.for Friday the 14th however I had a scheduling conflict. They said I could leave it overnight on their lot…but that wasn’t going to happen as it’s not the most crime free area. I made arrangements to bring it back down at 7:30am on Monday the 17th, which I did.

I have the Ford Pass app on my phone - if you don’t have it, get it. If you are not aware, the app has a location finder for the vehicle. It actually showed that RV had been moved into the building during the day on Monday the 17th. I did not hear anything by 3pm so I called and was advised that the technician had tried three different sets of bushings but they did not fit and that three more would be ordered to continue the alignment. However, they would not be available until Tuesday morning. I was very hesitant at leaving the RV there overnight in the outdoor lot as things happen and we do have personal property in the RV in addition to the value of the vehicle. I was advised that the RV would be parked inside overnight which I found acceptable. On Monday evening at 10:42pm I checked the Ford Pass app and found that the RV had not in fact been parked inside but was left outside in a far corner of their large lot. On Tuesday morning the 18th, I checked again at around 8am and it was in the same location. At 9:25am I received a text message advising that my vehicle was ready for pickup and that the only alignment the technician was able to do was to set the toe on the front end. I called before leaving my home and was advised that the technician test drove it and that the steering was right on after the toe was set. I went back and picked up the RV. The state inspection and the CSP were done and I thought the front end alignment was done as I was charged for it. When I spoke with the service writers about the change in the caster settings I learned that Ford does not have adjustable caster bushings available in their parts inventory, only aftermarket bushings have the adjustment ability and apparently Ford dealership can only use Ford parts. When I drove back home I noticed that it was still pulling to the right.

This afternoon - Wednesday the 19th - I received another text message with a link to a video showing my state inspection, I thought this was a nice feature. The technician explained everything while he went over the vehicle but at one point he made a comment about the alignment machine being down all week. All week? I was there yesterday. I sent a message back stating that I was confused about this and asked if an alignment was actually done on my vehicle. I received a text back that someone would check into it. They did, I received another text advising me that the technician confirmed that he was NOT able to complete the alignment. To the service department's credit they advised me that they had processed a refund to my credit card for the charge for the alignment.

Obviously I have a number of problems with all of this. So at this point I am searching for another Ford dealership that can handle a vehicle my size that will be honest with me. I’m also going to find an independent garage that handles alignments for larger vehicles and have them do the alignment.

But, I’m trying to find if anyone has had the caster changed on their rig and if so, what adjustable caster bushings did you use? I checked the Moog website but they only show the E350, not the E450. I’m not sure if they use the same adjustable bushing or not. If anyone has part numbers, brand names and how they’re working out I’d appreciate your input.

Flyer15015 · 03-19-2025, 02:50 PM

Specialty Products company P/N 24180. A bit north of $50.00 for a set.
They are in Longmont, Colorado but sold on several web sites.
They are Chinese investment castings, but they work.

Mike in Colorado

Bill Gail · 03-19-2025, 03:14 PM

I won't take my rig into a Ford Shop again !

I scheduled to have my transmission fluid changed at the local Ford Heavy Truck Shop .
Our coach is a Tioga on a 2000 Ford E350 SuperDuty .
I did my homework and found the correct fluid is Motorcraft Mercon V . The newer vehicles use Mercon LV , which stands for light viscosity.
The factory warned that using the LV fluid would catastrophically damage my transmission .
I met with the Service Manager after the Tech who I made my appointment with and explained my concerns to , still wrote the work order for Mercon LV .
The Manager said he corrected the work order and assured me that the correct fluid would be installed .
On the day of my appointment I arrived early and asked to speak to the Service Manager .
He wasn't in , so I asked the Tech to show me the work order .
To my surprise it still showed using the LV fluid !
I made my displeasure apparent to the Tech , who contacted the Parts Dept . only to find out they didn't have the Mercon V in stock !
A week later , I watched the mechanic install the Mercon V to my satisfaction , paid my bill and made it clear they'll never work on my vehicles again .
Manager offered me a free oil change service and vehicle wash .
I asked if that was the same settlement that would have offered me if my transmission broke 1000 miles from home due to installing the wrong fluid.
I declined and never went back .

kwftlaud · 03-19-2025, 03:20 PM

I had the bushing put in when I first got my 2001 28 ft long Itasca.
And the same time I installed a stronger front sway bar made by Helwig

My 14,000 lbs 28 ft long class C drives like a dream, no sway all all, no being blown over the road by 18 wheelers.
I can drive it all day with one hand.

Since I never did drive it without these upgrades I have nothing to compare it to . All I can say is these upgrades must be a serous improvement as I have never had a problem driving mine while others here complain about sway all the time.

I say find an independent shop that knows what you are talking about and have them do it and have them get the bushings .

d23haynes57 · 03-19-2025, 03:38 PM

There is something else going on here. The vehicle having a pull to one side may indicate a caster alignment problem. If so, that would be cross caster mis alignment from right to left side. That is a solid beam axle, correct? The caster should be adjustable with the original eccentrics to at least get both sides to match and that should fix the pull. If that is the problem. No, let's define the pull. Is it a pull where the vehicle keeps going to one side? Or is it a pull where if you let go of the steering wheel, the wheel will turn and then drive off to the side? Are you steering it back into the lane or holding the wheel back to keep from going out of the lane?
Having to pull the wheel back indicates some force is pushing it. Could be cross caster or a severed side to side weight imbalance or a bad spring. Having it just track to the side indicates the axles are not in alignment. Keep in mind that road crown and road being of level can also induce a pull. Have you tried driving on the wrong side of the road to see if the effect changes to the left?

twinboat · 03-19-2025, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d23haynes57

There is something else going on here. The vehicle having a pull to one side may indicate a caster alignment problem. If so, that would be cross caster mis alignment from right to left side. That is a solid beam axle, correct? The caster should be adjustable with the original eccentrics to at least get both sides to match and that should fix the pull. If that is the problem. No, let's define the pull. Is it a pull where the vehicle keeps going to one side? Or is it a pull where if you let go of the steering wheel, the wheel will turn and then drive off to the side? Are you steering it back into the lane or holding the wheel back to keep from going out of the lane?
Having to pull the wheel back indicates some force is pushing it. Could be cross caster or a severed side to side weight imbalance or a bad spring. Having it just track to the side indicates the axles are not in alignment. Keep in mind that road crown and road being of level can also induce a pull. Have you tried driving on the wrong side of the road to see if the effect changes to the left?

E350s and E450s use twin i beam front axles, no solid axles.

d23haynes57 · 03-19-2025, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

E350s and E450s use twin i beam front axles, no solid axles.

Sorry! I missed the Class C part.
Radius Rod mounts?

RickNC · 03-20-2025, 05:02 AM

Your problem with the dealer and many shops is that Ford specifies the caster range somewhere between 2.5-7 degrees positive. If it is within that range they won’t change it. You have to find an independent shop that will.

These class c’s drive best with a caster greater than 4.5 degrees positive with a cross caster of .5 ( more caster on right).

6 weeks ago I DIY’ed my alignment .( https://www.irv2.com/forums/f87/diy-...nt-665327.html ) The Moog fixed degree alignment bushings are the same for e350 and e450 up until 2019. They may be the same for newer but I didn’t search past 2019 model year. Napa also has them ($15 each)but branded under the Napa name.

Ron Dittmer · 03-20-2025, 08:57 AM

CLICK HERE to get to a post of mine that involved a front wheel alignment. The post includes numerous pictures to help with clarity. Though the post primarily discusses replacing front coil springs with ones rated lesser, it further gets into a wheel alignment WITH with a pull to the left, and discusses offset upper control arm bushings.

RetiredBob · 03-20-2025, 09:35 AM

Ron, many thanks for posting this. If I were to do both adding the Safe-T-Plus and alignment, which should be done first? After reading your post, it seems to me that alignment should be done first to avoid multiple adjustments to STP.

CaptainSkip · 03-20-2025, 12:15 PM

This whole thing just got more interesting. Yesterday I sent an email to the owner of the automotive group that has about 6 different brand dealerships in the area including the Ford dealership I dealt with. I told him basically what my original post says along with some additional information specific to his dealership.

This morning I got an email from the dealership's service manager all apologetic over what happened and how they want to do the alignment. I explained about the additional positive caster and the fact that I was told they can only use OEM Ford parts, which are not adjustable. I told him that I found a heavy duty truck shop in the area that can do the alignment the way I want it and he immediately wanted to know what their quote was. I told him I only called to see if they could do it...they can. I also sent him the part number for the Moog adjustable caster bushing that will fit the E450 - in case anyone is looking for it the -2 to +2 is K8978. They have other part numbers that go higher or lower, just replace 78 with 79, 80, 77, etc. Last year when I bought mine the dealer had it aligned and gave me a copy of the printout. The before and after on the caster was identical, +4.7 on the left and +5.1 on the right. So a +2 would get me right in the 6.7 to 7.1 range. I should mention that when I said it pulls to the right...it actually drifts to the right. If I take my hands off the steering wheel on a straight level road it slowly moves to the right. I tried on the highway and in the left lane it drifts to the left and if I straddle the center line it stays straight. Anyway, to make a long story longer, I gave him the Moog part number and offered to buy the bushings myself and bring them down to them. They're only $13 each. He said that was fine that way I could save the markup on the parts through Ford. But then he told me the installation/alignment would be $1,200.

When they "did the alignment" on Tuesday they only charged me $159. Even at $120 an hour I don't think it takes 10 hours to put in two bushings and align the front end...or does it? I think I'll be calling the Kenworth shop back and see what they charge for an alignment.

RickNC · 03-20-2025, 01:49 PM

It isn’t quite as simple as adding +2 to the caster number you have. You have to take into account what the caster numbers of the current bushings are. The numbers are stamped onto the top of the bushings. Moog type are a single number. The original Ford fixed bushing will have two numbers, one is the caster the other is for camber

Your current +5.1 and +4.7 isn’t bad. Increasing the cross caster would help more with the pulling to the right.

sibe · 03-20-2025, 05:36 PM

The drift to the right... well could be alignment... as mentioned the 5.1 - 4.7 is close,, it is hard getting over 5 and maintain camber..

but other items can cause it... Rolling the top Ball Joint of Rt side to increase camber also shortens the Wheelbase a slight ammount, normally not much..

I have shimmed the radius arm bushings and or added eccentric to it, that adds a tad more roll and can move axle center line.. It is not enough to change rear tracking to be noticed..

Just tossing stuff out there.. I have only done my own stuff for long time now.. Regardless alignments are the same theory.. Twin I beams have quirks.. A Arm stuff is old standards and Linked stuff is interesting..
Geez we did old straight axles,, nuke, bottle jacks and chains with a old I beam...
I had done 4x4 frt axles with shims behind spindles.. I not sure if they even make them anymore.. Talk about some work,, once you did a few the charts with shim kits got you close to the right stacks to set up...

I have "tweeked" the I beams... I had bars/jigs on my frame rack that I could tweek camber and at times roll I beam for Caster.. This was prior to the new designs but my 94 E 350 had a walk to the right and I twisted the Rt counter clkwise... and moved center line 1/4" forward...
This was a 2 day job on my machine .. then a trip to local Truck shop to fine tune with a 4 head machine...

Back in the 80's and 90's I would get $225-275 to tweek one and customer still needed a final alignment.. I could do a F100-F250 but not long WB or Duals with my old Ammco Stuff..

Sorry memory lane... the lost arts...

Ron Dittmer · 03-20-2025, 06:32 PM

Since the rig drifts right in the right lane, and left in the left lane, it could be the crown in the road causing the drifting, a normal natural phenomenon.

I had brought adjustable 2-piece split bushings to my alignment shop, bushings like the ones I picture here.

The shop didn't want to work with them, their reason being that they don't stay in position. I feel that was just an excuse to avoid complexity in their routine.

So they just worked with the fixed offset bushings shown here that the previous alignment shop installed back in 2007. If you zoom in, you can read "4x2 1-1/4" and "4x4 5/8", whatever that means.

Here are the "before and after" alignment numbers after changing the front coil springs to softer ones.

This is taken from my 2007 Service Manual.
Note the box in the upper left-hand area.

Our rig still floats ever-so slightly, but as I have mentioned in other posts, I believe the worst of the minor floating is from the 2007 E350 frame twisting ever-so-slightly from the extra long mounting bracket of our Safe-T-Plus. The leverage from the long arm, twists the end of the frame that it is mounted to, before the Safe-T-Plus starts to kick-in to do it's job as intended.