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Old 06-09-2022, 04:00 PM   #15
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Just sent you a pm.
Call me
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Old 06-09-2022, 10:00 PM   #16
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Troy,
Watch this guy, different relays, but the principal is the same
https://youtu.be/MGrfmbsJEuY
White rabbit is just a larger different name solenoid
Terry
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Old 06-09-2022, 10:34 PM   #17
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IF THE CRIMPS ARE GOOD, i MIGHT SGGEST ALTERNATE OF ADDING heat shrink?
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Old 06-10-2022, 08:01 AM   #18
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First: The rectangular device in the upper right is an automatic 12 volt breaker. At least I cannot see any sign of a reset. Some have them but it is more rare than common. The connections need to be cleaned up and the breaker should be replaced based on its appearance.

Second: You say multiple solenoids have blown up? Are you saying smoke came out of them? Have you taken any of the bad ones apart for inspection? Or perhaps they are not energizing do to whatever the real problem is. Do you still have any of the bad ones lying about? It is very easy to test them on a work bench.

How are you determining the solenoid is indeed activating????
IF that particular solenoid is designed such that it only needs a positive voltage on one little terminal that is fine but I would be verifying that you have voltage on that one wire when trying to activate it, and then also verifying that you do NOT have voltage on the mounting plate. You do this by finding a ground for your voltmeter that is not associated with that location. IF you find voltage on the metal mounting of the solenoid the ground is not working and you can then just supply your own ground on the other little terminal.

There are a lot of questions I could ask but don't really want to muddy the waters too much here.

Solenoids are simple dumb on/off switches controlled by a low control voltage/current. That is, no way that solenoid requires over 2 amps to control it. If a 15 amp fuse is blowing that is feeding that solenoid I highly suspect you have the wire connected to the wrong small terminal. An ohmeter can be used to find which small terminal is ground. No way would I use a higher amp fuse.
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Old 06-10-2022, 12:30 PM   #19
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The small metal and plastic box with the two red wires attached is a circuit breaker. Some are self-resetting. Some have a small plastic button to reset.

Can you provide the make and model of the solenoid. If so I will look up the specs and may be able to give better advice.

Grounding through the bracket is fine. Some have two high current connectors and one activating connector. This type are grounded through the bracket. You may wish to test the ground to see if it is good. Sometimes paint and corrosion interrupt the ground.

I see YC1 has provided a more detailed explanation.
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Old 06-10-2022, 02:59 PM   #20
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I didn't see if other members have covered this , but the piggyback device should have come with installation instructions , saying which of the two terminals is power and which is load , for the primary fuse ; if installed backwards the primary circuit is still protected , but the secondary fuse draws it's power through the primary fuse , instead of direct from power and can contribute to overloading the primary fuse.
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Old 06-11-2022, 01:42 PM   #21
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<<Honestly I don't remember whether it's latching or not. When it was working and I'd touch the red wire with the key on, I could hear it "clunk", connecting chassis power to the battery. When I removed the red wire, it clunked again, disconnecting the two.>> You do NOT want a LATCHING SOLENOID to use for a CHARGING SOLENOID. Latching is used for Battery ON/OFF for coach battery on many, and requires Reverse polarity to turn back OFF. but you want CONTINUOUS DUTY RATED.
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Old 06-13-2022, 11:00 AM   #22
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Thanks everyone for your input! I've order a continuous duty solenoid specific for this application, along with a BIRD to help control it. I'll try to post an update after I get them installed.
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Old 06-13-2022, 04:31 PM   #23
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Do yourself a favor and replace the little breaker and the connectors on those wires. That is asking for problems and may be contributing to your issues.

I have a hard time believing that solenoid is bad and would really like to test it on the bench. If the solenoid clicks or clunks when you apply the correct voltage and ground on the small terminals I would drill out the rivets on the solenoid and take it apart for inspection,

If you find burned contacts then it is indeed bad. If not, it is not the cause of your issues.

If you absolutely must replace it or are convinced of it then change the solenoid only and don't try to add the bird into the mix until you are absolutely sure that the solenoid is activating when you hit the aux start button. And you may have a bird or ird already.

But throwing two parts into the mix is asking for problems. With almost 50 years of experience, this is how I would approach it.
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Old 06-14-2022, 12:07 AM   #24
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YC1, If his replacements were NOT CD RATED, overheating/damaging the coils is common, thus the CD RATED needed. (My guess) is starter grade rated coils uses more turns of smaller gage wire, and will engage at lower voltages?...but smaller wire also easier damaged; (e.g. many turns of smaller wire in microwave oven transformer secondary removed and several turns of HEAVY wire installed to convert to a welder). When I replaced my 20yo BOOST SOLENOID under step lasy year, it would CLUNK, BUT NOT CONNECT.
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Old 06-14-2022, 06:37 AM   #25
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solenoid types

Quote:
Originally Posted by THenne1713 View Post
YC1, If his replacements were NOT CD RATED, overheating/damaging the coils is common, thus the CD RATED needed.

I'm a certified ET and understand this. One never knows the full story on these posts so cannot assume anything. A simple bench test as suggested would tell if the coil was open do to continuous power or the contacts were bad. I have changed out hundreds of continuous duty rated relays that did not stand up. Finally had to resort to timers on them.

I appreciate your clarifying for others the significance of the different types of solenoids.

(My guess) is starter grade rated coils uses more turns of smaller gage wire, and will engage at lower voltages?...but smaller wire also easier damaged; (e.g. many turns of smaller wire in microwave oven transformer secondary removed and several turns of HEAVY wire installed to convert to a welder). When I replaced my 20yo BOOST SOLENOID under step lasy year, it would CLUNK, BUT NOT CONNECT.
Thanks
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Old 06-15-2022, 08:22 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pillbox View Post
From you pic, you are missing the ground wire. In red circle.
Take your test light, touch the orange wire circled in blue to either big blk wire. If light goes On, oranges wire is your missing ground.
Or just connect a wire, red circled post and ground to frame
Terry
This appears to be a starter relay that is almost certainly not continuously rated. Dis you purchase it from an automotive parts store? The i terminal is meant to send positive to the ignition coil of a car that used points to bypass the series resistor that feeds the ignition coil from the ignition switch. Do not connect the I terminal to ground or you will short out the relay. This relay is grounded through the case.

None of this explains why the relays are failing unless they were both intermittent rated relays and were energized for a long time which caused the failure. I suspect that is the case. Or maybe one of the batteries is shorted out drawing excessive current. Are you sure you have positive on both sides of the relay (the big wires)? If you put your volt meter across the big wires do you read less than 3 volts?

I don't think an 80 amp relay is rated to parallel two large batteries

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Old 06-15-2022, 10:11 PM   #27
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This relay is almost certainly an intermittent duty starter relay with an I terminal to bypass the resistor in the feed to an ignition coil that operates with points and a condenser (old pre 1980 vehicle). If the relays were energized for a period of time before they failed that is most likely the issue. Did you purchase the relays from an auto parts store?

Do not ground the I terminal or you will short out the relay. The relay uses the case or the ground connection.

Are you sure your coach battery is OK. A shorted battery could cause issues. Is the voltage across the two large wires less than about 3 volts at all times?

This relay would probably work:

https://www.amazon.com/Cole-Hersee-2...s%2C120&sr=8-3
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Old 06-17-2022, 04:15 PM   #28
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Thanks everyone - I appreciate the feedback, comments and instruction. I bought a Trombetta Continuous duty 150 amp 4 terminal solenoid and got that installed today. I grounded one of the smaller terminals and my hot lead from the fuse panel AND the orange wire from my Aux Start button on the other one. The two big ones connect my two batteries, of course.

The solenoid clicks on when the key turns AND when the Aux button is pushed - I register voltage from the Alternator going across when the engine is running. So far so good. I mentioned putting in a BIRD earlier - haven't done that yet. For now I just want to see this part work! It's going out this weekend so hopefully everything will work just fine and nothing will break!

On the old solenoid that I replaced there was an oozing sticky substance coming from the inside - no screws to open it up... I'd have to drill to look inside.
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