Diesel vs. gasoline engines

[inthepines]

Originally Posted by 77Travco

Fixed it for you...

Lol well you got my point.

[arcaguy]

If you are looking for a Super C in the 30-32 foot range look here: https://www.nexusrv.com/check-ours-r...torhome-models


The Triumph and the Wraith are essentially the same coach with the Wraith having some upgrades. The Ghost is their top of the line Super C with air ride and air brakes since 2017. The Triumph and the Wraith can be had in the $150,000 to $160,000 range new, or they could a few months ago, and a 2017 Ghost should be a little cheaper than that. A new Ghost will be in the $200,000 range. Happy hunting.

[jjrbus]

I'm retired and now recovering from surgery and spend too much time on RV forums. My Toyota RV is 27 years old and a bit underpowered. I sometimes see much newer sprinter based RV's for even in todays over inflated markets for reasonable money. The gas or diesel are tempting.



Then I read the storys, on vacation and transmission started making a rumbling noise, at the MB dealership and said they can look at it next week. Vacation, next week. Now I realize that they are very dependable and may not suffer a lot of problems but next week is unacceptable to me. However it is a common post.

[mjbenedict]

Originally Posted by craigav

One thought to consider is that I don't think there are any Class C diesels in the 30~32' range so if you want a 32' class c it will likely be a gas engine RV.

I went from a tuned duramax \ with a 5th wheel to a 32' Class C V10 gas and I was pleasantly surprised with still having plenty of power. I also agree with those who say the gas engine revs a whole lot higher, and in the highest of the rpm range it is fairly loud no doubt especially as I pass the Super C's and Class A diesels that are slowing me down. (lol) I tow a similar weight vehicle (Chevrolet Colorado ZR2) and never had any issues and have been over some of the highest passes in Colorado.

I will say though that I certainly like the Super C's and I am not against diesel engines in any way. If I ever decided to go fulltime then I may consider a Super C for sure. However, I am not kidding about my Class C w\toad passing plenty diesel motorhomes that are going up the same mountain passes I am climbing, and that is without me using full throttle but certainly close to full throttle, and high rpms as well, reminds me of a jet turbine engine.

Dynamax makes two super-C Ram 5500 diesels that are under that range in length. I have a 36.5ft Isata 5 that I am happy with and would never go to a gas motorhome. It's my first diesel vehicle too. I suspect anyone who has driven a diesel motorhome will be disappointed to go back to gas.

[Wacdmc]

I had a 2016 32’ Class C with the V10. I put 30K miles on it driving all over the US with no issues from the power train. You won’t be driving over Wolfcreek pass in Colorado at 60 MPH but it will certainly make it up the hills. 10K of the miles was towing an Equinox with no problems.

I also towed a fifth wheel with a Duramax diesel before the motor home. Diesel is truly second to none as it pertains to torque. However, in my experience and with my expectations, today’s gas engines are sufficient for a motor home.

[chunker]

Originally Posted by Wacdmc

I had a 2016 32’ Class C with the V10. I put 30K miles on it driving all over the US with no issues from the power train. You won’t be driving over Wolfcreek pass in Colorado at 60 MPH but it will certainly make it up the hills. 10K of the miles was towing an Equinox with no problems.

I also towed a fifth wheel with a Duramax diesel before the motor home. Diesel is truly second to none as it pertains to torque. However, in my experience and with my expectations, today’s gas engines are sufficient for a motor home.

In most cases it's not that the gas engine is a dog, it's the whole package built around it. For a Class C when you get over 30' typically you will have very little CCC, something most dealers will not tell you. Thus many are well overloaded not only on GVWR, but also axle weight ratings, and tires. Typical tires will be LT and have no meaningful margin for loading. Means very careful loading, tire pressure monitoring, and maybe controlling speed. Typically the bigger diesel based C, super C, has plenty of margin for all those weight ratings. Sprinter based chassis, not so much.

The sum of the parts is not the allowable total. In other words just because it may have a 7500# hitch tow rating, there may not be available CCC to tow that much especially after the RV is loaded for travel. Towing, even flat towing reduces CCC. Tongue weight, towing equipment, etc.

[Johnynorthla]

1st RV; we Had a 2016 sprinter, I didn’t like dealing with Mercedes Benz. The particular filter must be cleaned/swapped out and is super expensive. It towed great, but the brakes snd stopping power were terrible, and it felt too heavy and bobbly. It was slow going up hills when towing. And CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) is terrible on these sprinters!

2nd RV; we had a gasser, class B, 2018 Dodge Ram/ Fiat Ducato, I loved it, wife hated the size, too small for her. It towed, handled, ran and stopped way better than the sprinter.


3rd RV; 2019 Ford E450, V10. I had to do a lot of tweaking and upgrades to make it handle good. I had to insulate the doghouse to cut down on the noise and heat. It tows great, the breaking is outstanding! I now like to drive it! We just did 44 days from S FL to Utah to NE PA, yes the thing was revving pretty high, but toed our CRV like a champ, and yes, we were passing some diesels.


Someone once told me if”Gas mileage, if it’s a concern don’t RV”. I’m not doing this recreation to save money so I guess he was right.


As for buying or comparing to a super C, (something I constantly think about), they are very different in many ways. The biggest advantage I see is CCC. I have 2,900. And this is my biggest concern outside of a good floor plan!


I would definitely see what your accessories are and find a rig that meets them all almost. The only issue I see with the diesel or dealing with DEF and that head sensor on the Freightliner chassis. But it seems like it’s going to get figured out sooner rather than later.


Good luck let us know what you decide.

[mstng]

Great post.
I’m at about 12000 a year in this Sprinter so if it was less than that I probably would have gone gas and all of your observations I also share. I wanted a B gasser, I really did but I just couldn’t after sitting in the Transit and Pro Am class B. The suspension, the cab and attention to detail was obvious to me. I’ve had both the V10 and the earlier Tin sprinter. If I lived in Colorado power and torque would have been the primary concern and the decision would have been easier.

Originally Posted by Ron Dittmer

I think you are referring to me. Here is my list.

Advantages Of The Mercedes Sprinter With Diesel Engine
- Same rig model (Phoenix Cruiser model 2350), not towing, same driving habit, the Mercedes yields 13-14mpg compared the the older Ford E350 with V10 at 10.5mpg. The latest 7.3L-V8 will close the gap by 1mpg.
- The Sprinter has a much tighter turning radius than the E350
- In recent years, the Sprinter offers more interactive safety features.
- The Sprinter has a more ergonomic driver compartment with more leg room.
- Comfort continues in the Sprinter with a car-like feel & quiet ride.
- The Sprinter offers a grander view out the windshield
- The Sprinter is made by Mercedes which people are attracted to.

Advantages Of The Ford E350 with 6.8L-V10 Engine (better with the latest 7.3L-V8)
- Given identical motor homes both brand and model, lately the E350 chassis is roughly $22,000 MSRP cheaper
- The Ford V10 engine has 50% more horse power and torque (the latest engine offers more)
- The Ford E350 chassis handles 375 pounds more weight.
- The E350 lately often comes with a 7500 pound hitch (previously 5000 pounds).
- The E350 rear axle is significantly wider which translates to better stability.
- In most places traveled, gasoline costs less than diesel fuel
- The Sprinter diesel has limited mechanical service shops around North America
- Maintenance cost for a Sprinter is much higher than either Ford E350 gas engine
- The Sprinter diesel is typically outfitted with a propane generator. Propane is a critical fuel for RV operations, and generally needs to be rationed when dry camping.
- Since around 2008, the Sprinter diesel engine should not be idled for extended periods because you will damage it's terribly expensive emission equipment. This limitation is detrimental when you need a/c but there are generator restrictions, you are low on propane, or you have a mechanical failure with the generator or roof a/c. The Ford E350 offers a great backup system. The 6.8L-V10 and 7.3L-V8 can safely idle for hours on end, heating, cooling, and battery charging, all valuable if you have a baby, pets, or doing life with health/respiratory issues.

My conclusion, the Sprinter is more comfortable but is comes at a sacrifice to over-all "motorhome practicality". I feel a Sprinter is justifiable if you are driving 20,000 miles a year. If you are driving 5000 miles a year as most people do with their motorhomes, then a typical gaser will be a better choice.

[mstng]

Transmission rumble. Brings back memories. What sprinter do you have?

[WorldCat25]

Originally Posted by arcaguy

If you are looking for a Super C in the 30-32 foot range look here: https://www.nexusrv.com/check-ours-r...torhome-models


The Triumph and the Wraith are essentially the same coach with the Wraith having some upgrades. The Ghost is their top of the line Super C with air ride and air brakes since 2017. The Triumph and the Wraith can be had in the $150,000 to $160,000 range new, or they could a few months ago, and a 2017 Ghost should be a little cheaper than that. A new Ghost will be in the $200,000 range. Happy hunting.

I've been driving my Ghost for 4 years next month. As an old truck driver I love having that diesel and I love my Ghost.
In Oct 2018, at 16,000 miles, I had to have my DEF sensor replaced. No big deal, parts arrived next day and back on the road. Now at 54,000 miles and running great (hope I did not jinx myself).
Hearing all sorts of sad stories about RVs being stranded for weeks and months with DEF problems. Don't know why it is so prevalent now than before. Lots of theories.
I've been thinking about this a lot. Suppose the you know what hits the fan but you're able to escape in you diesel powered rig. Even if you don't have a sensor failure, your rig is only going to be drivable until you run out of DEF or what you have goes bad. Chances are you can always find gas or diesel.
I'm thinking twice about ever buying another diesel.
My 2 cents for what it is worth.

[bobfrommaine]

Our RV has the '14 Ford V10. It has taken us across all the mountains, down all the highways and very seldom do diesels pass us. The only downside of the gas engine is it develops its power at higher RPM which makes it quite loud. I am confident this engine will go at least 100K miles, which exceeds my RVing lifetime.
Bob '14 37F Winnebago Adventurer; Jeep toad

[soarak]

Originally Posted by Ron Dittmer

My understanding.....

In the past 20 years, conventional class-Cs with a diesel engine have been as follows. This does not consider Super-Cs

E350 & E450 with a 6.0L around 2005-2007
Sprinter L5 around 2005-2007
Sprinter V6 from 2008 to present day
Transit, around 2019-2020

I feel none of the diesels compare to the performance and application of the Ford E350/E450 6.8L-V10 & today the 7.3L-V8. Nor do they don't compare to the Chevy/GM 3500/4500 gasoline engine.

The fuel efficiency of the diesels don't offset the lengthy list of benefits of the gasoline engines. Every diesel has limited available service, expensive service, complex emissions systems since 2008, propane or diesel generator, limited idle times, and other negatives. The popular Ford E-Series and Chevy Express gasoline engines are going to be your best choices.

Well, I must agree. I sold my 2012 Navion last year. It was 188hp and 325lbf. It is not the torque that gets you up the mountain it is the HP. The V8 is 350hp and 463lbf so substantially more than the Sprinter based RV The sprinter was GCVW 15k and most of the E350/450 will be a bit more.
Diesels used to be very reliable, but the EPA is bent of chasing them away from the market by adding more and more high tech to improve emissions. As a result there are a lot of problems with today's diesels although some are very lucky. I drive 2014 Mercedes BlueTech and I love it but that will be my last diesel.

[CMWade]

We have a 2021 model 31.5 foot Sunseeker Class C on a E450 Ford chassis with the 7.3 L gas V-8. We also flat tow a Jeep Cherokee. It averages about 10mpg. It is geared to work with 4.56 gears. About 2300 RPM in sixth gear is 65mph. Not quite the torque of my previous H/O Cummins, but it did top Vail Pass at 60 mph. Any fault codes can be read with at reader from Harbor Freight. Unlike a diesel that can only be worked on by the dealer. The gas engine is all I need and I spent 40 years working on diesels.

[soarak]

Please see my notes below

Originally Posted by Johnynorthla

1st RV; we Had a 2016 sprinter, I didn’t like dealing with Mercedes Benz. The particular filter must be cleaned/swapped out and is super expensive. It towed great, but the brakes snd stopping power were terrible, and it felt too heavy and bobbly. It was slow going up hills when towing. And CCC (Cargo Carrying Capacity) is terrible on these sprinters!
Good luck let us know what you decide.

My sprinter had CCC of 1350lb, one of the largest I have seen, but that was not enough. In regards to breaks I also agree, I always wondered if I was going to stop in time, suspension was very wobbly, leaf springs in the back as on any gas class A or C.
Overall despite the downsides, I liked it a lot, but luck of CCC and storage space was a real issue.