E-450 Stability Issues for a first time RV owner

[Pipestone]

I am a first time RV owner who purchased a 2010 30'QB Freelander with 18000 miles on it. On my drive home, after the purchase, I discovered why this 2010 motorhome had only 18000 miles on the clock.
I have done a fair bit of research on the stability issue and have taken some of steps suggested by a few of this sites members.
1. Increased caster to 5.2 and 5.4 (approximately).
2. Bilstein shocks and steering stabilizer.
3. Hellwig sway bars, front and rear.
Of course, the unit is considerably more pleasant to drive, but I wish to take a little further. I am now considering Sumo Maximums on the rear and the Sumo Solos on the front OR a SS450 Supersteer Trac Bar.
Which way would you go, the Summos or the trac bar? Perhaps both in the future.
Thanks,
Art

[twinboat]

I would go with the track bar.

Sumos firm up the ride. I felt it was to firm and took them out of the front of my E450 MH.

[Xmcdog]

I would also go with the bar.
There is nothing worse than an ill handling vehicle.

Good luck.

[Taffeys]

I would suggest you first four corner weigh your MH with it being fully loaded. Then set your tire pressures using your tire manufacturers Load and Inflation Table or data.

The advantage of a track or Panhard rod is its simplicity. Its major disadvantage is that the axle must necessarily move in an arc relative to the body, with the radius equal to the length of the Panhard rod. The E450 rear springs are very large and do not flex much laterally so a Panhard rod really doesn't do much. A Watt's linkage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt%27s_linkage is a suspension design that is similar but dramatically reduces the sideways component of the axle's vertical travel and would probably perform better than a Panhard rod.

[A32Deuce]

Originally Posted by Taffeys

I would suggest you first four corner weigh your MH with it being fully loaded. Then set your tire pressures using your tire manufacturers Load and Inflation Table or data.

The advantage of a track or Panhard rod is its simplicity. Its major disadvantage is that the axle must necessarily move in an arc relative to the body, with the radius equal to the length of the Panhard rod. The E450 rear springs are very large and do not flex much laterally so a Panhard rod really doesn't do much. A Watt's linkage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watt%27s_linkage is a suspension design that is similar but dramatically reduces the sideways component of the axle's vertical travel and would probably perform better than a Panhard rod.

Wrong. That was the best first move I made. It did stop side to side movement. At 97000 miles, I think I know what I am talking about. Alignment, better shocks and tires in that order. Bilstein shocks(silver) and steering stabilizer was last change.

[Kenny Loney]

First and at no cost, check the cold tire pressure on the front wheels. If it is 80 psi, the max sidewall pressure for the maximum load, it is probably way to much, will give handling, wandering problems.
When a shop aired up our tires to max sidewall pressure, I had to fight to keep it in a straight line. When I reduced the pressure down to 70 psi, it was and still is easy, one hand driving. It is an 06 unit and still has original shocks and no add ons.
The tire pressure weight chart agreed with Winnebago's sticker pressure of 65 for the front. When I replaced the tires after 15000 miles (age) there was noticibly more wear in the centre of the tread, and indication of still being overly inflated.

Ken

[TXiceman]

First thing to do is get a front end alignment with RV loaded as for normal travel and full fuel. Get it aligned at an independent truck alignment shop. Ford does a terribel job of aligning the E-450 chassis.

Ken

[Taffeys]

Originally Posted by A32Deuce

Wrong. That was the best first move I made. It did stop side to side movement. At 97000 miles, I think I know what I am talking about. Alignment, better shocks and tires in that order. Bilstein shocks(silver) and steering stabilizer was last change.

If wanted your opinion I would have asked for it! I see that you think very highly of yourself, at least someone does.

[swampdog2]

Taffeys is right on !

[twinboat]

At the risk of being treated like the last poster who disagreed with you, here goes.

The track bar, designed for the F53 chassis, mounts the bar above the roll center of the rear axle.

In doing that, its effect as a track bar may be minimal, but its effect as an antisway bar will be felt, after install.

Excessive sway is a handling issues and a decrease will be noticed after this type or track bar installation.

If you look at the picture, you can see its effect.

[Nickd]

My experience is mostly with Ford class A suspension issues, but the e450 has a lot of the same issues. Some are just magnified by the smaller cutaway chassis IMOP.

I added a track bar first before sway bars or any other mods. It made a difference, but was not what I would call game changing. It really helps eliminate some of the busing play and you can notice added stability.

Sway bars made the biggest improvement so far for our rig, however they don't lower the center of gravity or the fact that these chassis are overloaded all the time.

The Sumos will definitely help and are not crazy expensive, but you might find they firm up the ride a bit.

The best plan of attack might be to seek out help from a truck spring shop. They can rebuild, re-arch and increase your factory spring packs, replace the soft/worn bushings and bring the rig to correct ride height even when it's loaded.

Re-worked springs are my next planned mod on our F53. we have a truck spring shop here in SoCal that does amazing work. I hear the handling improvements are a huge difference.

[Taffeys]

Originally Posted by twinboat

At the risk of being treated like the last poster who disagreed with you, here goes.

The track bar, designed for the F53 chassis, ......................

Was that directed at me or someone else? I cannot tell.

I do appreciate substantiated facts, personal opinions not so much. Everybody has one....... Harry Callahan.

I stated a fact about the Panhard rod, AKA track bar; not my opinion.

The OP asked about the E450 chassis, not the F53. While similar they are not the same. Even different years of the "same" chassis are sometimes "different." A C-class and an A-class MH are different animals too. Different aerodynamics, roll centers, suspensions, etc., etc., etc.

So why did you reply?

[myfirstford]

My new to me RV experience largely parallels yours.

After Bilstein shocks, new steering stabilizer, alignment bushings and larger sway bars, the improvement was noticeable but seemed lacking. I still felt an uneasy responsiveness to steering in curves and sometimes had a slight pull.

The RF radius arm bushing was noted as significantly misalignment when viewed from the front. At replacement, both RA bushings were found to be "oval". Also took this opportunity to further increase the caster settings to 6.75 / 6.5 deg.

After RA bushing replacements and the latest caster settings, the steering uneasiness as well as occasional pull was gone. I am happy at this point, but why not take it a little further.

Based upon my experiences with others vehicles and track bars. I believe it will help here. I have a SS450 in the garage and wait for better weather for installation.

I have rear air bags. Their use does reduce body roll and increase drivability at the expense of a little harsher ride. I expect the reduced body roll will counteract the "roll center" effects of a trackbar as well as the SS450 bar is longer than the F53 chassis bar, particularly the DIY bars.

If I did not have rear air bags, I would consider adding them or Sumo rear equivalent, concurrent with, or sometime following a SS450 track bar install, to reduce body roll effects.

I would not install a front spring "helper" unless I needed to increase axle weight capacity or correct a ride height issue. Just like sway bars upgrades, rear should work better that the front.


Your results may vary, Good Luck.

[Taffeys]

Originally Posted by myfirstford

My new to me RV experience largely parallels yours.
.............
Your results may vary, Good Luck.

Very well stated! I hope the OP and others will appreciate your input.