E450 not starting - PATS light flashing on dash

[Dazzle]

Hi All

So, this isn't the first time this has happened to me, I've had the pleasure once before but I don't seem to be able to find a solution on line.
I believe I may have been lucky last time and it was something I touched/moved that allowed it to work again???

So, the background to my latest event:-

Went camping, then went to a track day which meant we was towing my trailer.
No problems all weekend.
Got home, decided to use rear jacks just to put a slight angle on the trailer.
Ran the engine and put the jacks on the rear down, removed my car from the trailer, locked it all up then went and started the engine to put the jacks up.
Once finished that, turned engine off, un-hitched the trailer and made it ready so I could drive the bus out of the way, went to start the engine and 'nothing'!!
Looked down and saw the security light flashing.
I recognised that from before but can't for the life of me remember what I did to solve it??

I have 2 keys, they were both working.
I know you're not supposed to keep them together and they were BUT they both worked before this.

I'm going to try my code reading tool to see if I get anything but I don't expect too!!

Anyone have any ideas? Links to pages that have things to try?

Not that it should make a difference but the bus is a 2017 Forester 3011DS.

Many thanks,

Darren

[youracman]

Just a guess but ...... from the sequence of events, could it be that your system "thinks" that one of the jack is still down? Wouldn't think it would disable the engine, but just for grins you might cycle the jacks down and back up again.

My rig doesn't have logic that sophisticated but yours is a lot newer.

Good luck with the fix.

[Dazzle]

Originally Posted by youracman

Just a guess but ...... from the sequence of events, could it be that your system "thinks" that one of the jack is still down? Wouldn't think it would disable the engine, but just for grins you might cycle the jacks down and back up again.

My rig doesn't have logic that sophisticated but yours is a lot newer.

Good luck with the fix.

I could definitely give that a go.
I don't think it works on the PATS system but who knows??
I have also seen the One control panel is operating like the engine is on, so you might be onto something!

[Steve-W]

The 2017 E450 chassis does not use the PATS ignition security system. There is conflicting information on this out there about this. I had a spare key (no chip or programing) made at my hardware store and it starts the engine with no issue.

I would try disconnecting the chassis battery with the house batteries disconnect off.for 15 minutes and then reconnect and see if it behaves any different. This will reset the ECM & BCM.

[Dazzle]

Originally Posted by Steve-W

The 2017 E450 chassis does not use the PATS ignition security system. There is conflicting information on this out there about this. I had a spare key (no chip or programing) made at my hardware store and it starts the engine with no issue.

I would try disconnecting the chassis battery with the house batteries disconnect off.for 15 minutes and then reconnect and see if it behaves any different. This will reset the ECM & BCM.

I agree there seems to be some conflicting information on this but considering it says it has it in my 2017 E-series Owners manual and they happen to be the ones who built it, I'm going to believe them over random people on the Internet

Maybe the confusion is the name?
In the Manual it is under the Main title of 'Passive Anti-theft System (PATS)' but it refers to the Immobilization system as 'SecuriLock'

Anyway, I'm not here to argue about this, I know that my Bus won't start and the Security light on the dash is flashing fast when I try to start it and there's no crank.

I have found some other threads on it and have looked at some relays and fuses to make sure they are okay.
I have also had the battery disconnected for over a day as the rain started after I disconnected
So, will be hooking it all back up today and will let you know what happens

[Steve-W]

There was thread some time ago with the same issue. It turned out to be one of two relays (PATS & fuel) in the under hood fuse box. Due to that thread Ive been carrying a spare relay.

Here is the link

Sounds like Ford may not be 100% accurate In their documentation if the PATS system is installed and fully active.

[Dazzle]

Originally Posted by Steve-W

There was thread some time ago with the same issue. It turned out to be one of two relays (PATS & fuel) in the under hood fuse box. Due to that thread Ive been carrying a spare relay.

Here is the link

Sounds like Ford may not be 100% accurate In their documentation if the PATS system is installed and fully active.

Thank you
I have seen that one and quite a few others now I've had a chance to search the Internet because of wet weather

Is the actual PATS system installed? I couldn't tell you. Did my Bus not start and the Security light flash, yes it did and everything I read on the Internet refers to the PATS so I can only assume it's fitted and was causing me my problem!!

I'll continue below .....................................

[Dazzle]

IT RUNS

So, after a misty start to the day, it turned out quite nice so it allowed me to get back out to the Bus and continue my hunt/saga!

I finished off checking my fuses and relays (Steve above gives a link to one of the many threads I found that all talked about the PCM and communication issues)
The battery had been disconnected for over a day so touched the leads together once more and connected everything back up.

Tried to start it, no crank and flashing security light

Started to search for PCM, pulling lower dash panels and other things.
Found wires everywhere from the side cameras so will have to tidy all that up!!
Checked more fuses in the inside fuse box which is conveniently located right up in the corner of the foot well
Couldn't find PCM and was going to start taking the steering column binnacle off so I could see if I could find the transmitter ring for the ignition key.

Then I suddenly remembered what youracman said about the sequence of events.

So, normally when I use the jacks, I start the engine but I obviously couldn't do that
But it also needs the parking brake on, so I pushed down on the parking brake pedal and put the key in the ignition so I could at least turn it to the run position.............

....NO flashing security light, everything looked normal (forgot to mention that you lost the mileage when it didn't start, replaced by dashes!)

Okay, I have tools and everything in and around the drivers position but I went for a start.........

....and it burst into life, first turn

So, now I'm asking myself, is the parking brake mechanism rubbing on/moving something and every now and then causing this to happen??
I don't know but will take a good look tomorrow just in case

Thanks for the input everyone. There's no real answer but will update if it happens again or if I find anything

[Steve-W]

What they didn't tell you in the manual is the gremlins they installed

I have to agree with you about the parking brake mechanism rubbing or moving something in the rats nest of wires that Ford & FR stuff in that area.

With the odo showing dashes it sure sounds like something feeding the PCM/BCM/dash wiring is being partially disconnected. Good luck on the hunt.

[Randalpho]

The Instrument Cluster (IPC) is the PATS function module on that application. If the odometer shows hashes then there is a communications problem between the IPC and the PCM.


NOTE: The Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) is available on this vehicle as an option. The vehicle must be ordered with or without PATS by the customer. It is not a dealer-installed option.

PATS vehicles consist of the following components:

Anti-theft indicator (located in the Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC) )
Encoded ignition key(s) (the key contains a transponder)
PATS transceiver
IPC
PCM

Non- PATS vehicles consist of the following components:

Anti-theft indicator (located in the IPC )
Non- PATS ignition key(s) (conventional ignition key)
IPC
PCM

PATS uses radio frequency identification technology to deter a drive-away theft. Passive means that it does not require any activity by the user.

Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS) Function

The PATS function is controlled by the IPC . The PATS uses the IPC to carry out all of the PATS functions such as receiving the identification code from the PATS key, issuing a signal to the PCM to control the starter and fuel injectors enable, and initiating the key interrogation sequence when the ignition key is turned to the ON or START position. All elements of PATS must be functional before the vehicle starts. If any of the components are not working correctly, the vehicle cannot start.

PATS may cause a vehicle no start due to either the fuel injectors or the starter not operating, or both.

PATS is active only for a few seconds when the vehicle is starting. It is not a PATS concern if the vehicle stalls after it has been running for a minimum of 3 seconds. PATS does not disable a running vehicle.

Anti-Theft Indicator Operation

With Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS)

With the key in the OFF position, the anti-theft indicator flashes every 2 seconds for 10 seconds and then it goes out and stays off. With the key in the ON position, the anti-theft indicator proves-out for 3 seconds, then goes out to indicate the PATS is functional and the vehicle has been enabled.

Without Passive Anti-Theft System (PATS)

With the key in the OFF position, the anti-theft indicator does not flash. With the key in the ON position, the anti-theft indicator proves-out for 3 seconds, then goes out to indicate the vehicle has been enabled.