Ford 450

[CapeCodJon]

We traded a Montana HC 318RE for a 2018 Leprechaun 311FS (2017Ford E450) in May. Our first trip from TN to NH and back was a white knuckle drive with the sloppy steering. Researched various forums and the solution was an alignment that increased the caster +5 degrees. Much more civil now and my shoulders are not worn out at the end of the day. I researched every Class C on the market and this was the one with the most interior storage. Exterior storage is only adequate. We had trouble getting a picture with our Carryout Dome, so we had a direct connection installed in the sidewall just below the TV (Direct TV does not have the Furrion TV in their list so the volume on the remote will not work. Have to use the TV remote) The radio reception is lousy so I will install an external antenna through the cabover side just above the bunk and run the wire down the front window post to the radio. Anyone have another suggestion? The bedroom slide would only go out a short way because the side brackets were installed incorrectly at the factory. The dealer had to take the whole slide out, replace the brackets, and replace the chewed up gears. Works fine now. All in all we really like the unit and will be spending 5 months in Naples, FL in it. Looking forward to Direct TV broadcasting HD from the 101 Satellite instead of the SD signal after April 2019.

[JONWisconsin]

We traded our Columbus fifth wheel for our new 311FS Leprechaun. A few issues dealt by the dealer. We love it. We spend 6 months/year in it. We love it. Just left for winter.

[Teamfoxy]

I agree with much of what has been said, but not all. We have the E-350 chassis with a 24.5 ft. motorhome on it. On flat roads we run 2000-2200 RPM which gives us 60-65 mph. At those RPM's the engine is very quiet. (much quieter than our Equinox). Even on grades to 15%, we run at 3500-4000 and have never seen anything higher. Tow/haul works great, but sometimes you need to turn it off to get it to shift into higher gears. The MH came with 48000 miles on it and we added 8000 miles this summer.
We run our front tires at 65-70 psi per the Winnebago chart because it tracks better, but run the dual rears at the maximum 80 psi per the tire rating. The fuel mileage is better with higher pressure and that is what the tire guys told me to do when I put the new ones on.
I am not sure what the caster is set at, because I decided to drive it before messing around with it. I have no complaints after 8000 miles of driving and the tires are wearing evenly so not changing anything there.
Weighing the rig is a good idea as you may find that you are overloading the rear axle even if you are not over the max vehicle weight. But in general keep as much of the weight forward of the drive wheels as you can because weight behind the drive wheels makes the front end lighter and more apt to drift.

[Harvard]

Ford ships these cutaways with about +3.5 degrees of caster which is OK for city driving BUT you want to have about +5.5 degrees on the highway.

So, the following link by 2kGeorgieBoy will give you some additional pointers on how to successfully approach an alignment shop.

Wandering at highway speeds

Reply Post by 2kGeorgieBoy
Re: Wandering at highway speeds
Reply #36 on: March 14, 2018, 09:07:02 PM

START QUOTE:
Jeff..Although we have a 2000 Georgie Boy 31' Maverick "C" on a Ford E450 chassis, I can fully agree on the caster effects, at least for us. When we got the unit in Jan 2014, the dealer had us take into a truck shop for an alignment. It turned out OK....A trip to Moab shortly there after brought out the problems. I then started reading the threads and comments here about the caster settings....esp., from Harvard. I checked the data from the first alignment and found that it was set at about 3 1/2 degrees positive...about in the middle of Ford's recommended range. Shortly before a cross country trip to Maryland in fall of 2016, I returned to the shop where the first alignment was done. I talked to the service manager and he knew of the problems with the E450's and was happy to increase the caster as I asked. The alignment tech was also familiar with it and ended up with settings close to 5.5 degrees positive. WHAT A DIFFERENCE! The unit tracked straight down the road, passing semis no longer caused a white knuckle hold on the wheel, and overall it was just a lot more enjoyable. It did however increase steering effort a little but not anything to worry about. But, be sure that the shop you go to is willing to "think outside of the box". Our first alignment was "plain vanilla", right in the middle like it was always done. Second time out, they were very willing to increase settings beyond what normally would be done, and still stay with in Ford's guidelines (0-7 degrees, I believe). I realize that our E450 chassis is an entirely different animal than yours, but I was trying to add support to the caster increase thinking and how it helped us......if you go down that road.
END QUOTE:

[BFL]

Originally Posted by OFDPOS

When people are commenting on weighing the rig.
You really need to have it loaded like you are going on a trip .
Meaning loaded up with LP tank full, Fresh water tank at least 1/3 full, Maybe a gallon or two in both the Grey Tank and Black tank, Full tank of gas, Fridge with food, clothes, , storage compartments has tools etc.

Then have it weighed and if possible not just front and rear axles weighed but all four corners too.
That way you now know you may need to rearrange your load , as in switching stuff in the storage compartments etc.

Once weighed now do the tire pressure adjustments.

After a few trips under your belt and noticing the way the rig handles , then you may want to look into an alignment, replace the undersized both front and rear Anti Sway Bars ford puts on these chassis (yes the same size ASB's are on the E150-E450).

May want to replace the little ford steering stabilizer damper with a Safe T Plus Steering Stabilizer or Roadmaster Flex Steering Stabilizer for

As for your Pros and cons
Pros : Eng ok Trans ok
Cons : Wide very wide turn radios, front suspension , leg room in cab, excessive heat from dog house in cab , Fords lack of building these chassis's with proper sized parts ...
IE : ASB's , Steering damper to just name a couple..

Thank you so much for the great information!
This really helps me focus on what I need to do.
Ben

[oakcreekeric]

Hey Guys..

I don't wanna hi-jack this thread.. but I have a buddy who has a Leprechaun 319DS and he is looking to "improve" his handling..

I've told him about the increase in caster..

He is looking to change out the shocks/struts... and I know he already has the air-bags in the rear..

Just wondering what other suspension improvement he could do..

Thanks !!

[OFDPOS]

Originally Posted by oakcreekeric

Hey Guys..

I don't wanna hi-jack this thread.. but I have a buddy who has a Leprechaun 319DS and he is looking to "improve" his handling..

I've told him about the increase in caster..

He is looking to change out the shocks/struts... and I know he already has the air-bags in the rear..

Just wondering what other suspension improvement he could do..

Thanks !!

What's his concern /complaint on the handling ?
Swaying, diving front end while driving through dips in the road , Harsh slam from the rear when driving over cracks in the road / expansion joints ?

Some will say just throwing your money away.
I say to each their own.

On our Winni Aspect 28B I did the following and was happy with every components I switched out EXCEPT for the shocks.

First up I replaced both the front and rear undersized Anti Sway Bars with Hellwigs.
Next up I replaced the shocks front and rear with the koni's FSD's Should saved my money and gone with Bilstein's ! Not at all satisfied with the koni's !

From there I weighed it front and rear then all 4 corners loaded like I was going on a trip knew where and what I had to move around back to front compartments etc.
From the weighing of it I then adjusted the tire pressures accordingly .

I then replaced the front steering damper with the Safe-T-Plus Steering Stabilizer. Then I had the alignment done with the added caster and had a rear Trac Bar installed.

Out of everything done I feel adding the rear Trac Bar helped the most on getting pushed over by a passing semi.
It really stopped that tail wagging the dog motion I got after being pushed over by a passing semi.

These MH's are a big box going down the road, so they are not going to drive like a car, but doing the above it was like driving a complete different MH.

For now I'm thinking of either replacing the front coil springs to Sumo's or replace those junk koni's and put Bilstein's on..

[Capt Steve]

There has been lots of very good info here already and though I don't have a 450 {I do own a 2011 E-350 with the V-10 and 5-speed Torque shift trans} I'll add a few things. Tow Haul is your best friend, period! Unless you are on flat to a slight downhill you should have TH engaged and definitely if you are loaded heavy for normal RVing or towing anything.

On long steep downhauls, TH will save your brakes by all but eliminating their use. Let the trans and engine be your brakes and the best part is you will not burn a drop of fuel all the way to the bottom of the grade.

Get a Scan Gauge, it will be the best $150 {mas y menos} you ever spend. I run with mine displaying average MPG, real-time mpg, coolant temp and trans fluid temp. it will quickly teach your right foot to be far more efficient{just play the game of trying to keep your real-time mpg higher than the average}.

The Scan Gauge has the ability to display a couple of dozen different outputs from your engines ECM and is always far more accurate than any of the stock Ford gauges. If the engine throws a code the SC will read it for you. Installation takes about 5 minutes {two pieces of velcro and a wire tie or two} and a few more to program it.

As noted get the coach weighed, loaded as you will use it, and set your tires PSI based upon the tire manufacturers load table for the weight each tire is carrying. Ignore any sticker posted in the cab or coach manufacturers recommendations as they can not be based on your actual loads. The folks that built your tires know.

As stated do not hesitate to run the V-10 with your foot in it... you can not hurt this beast and it makes its power {max HP is 305 at 4,250 rpm and max torque is 420# at 3,250 rpm} by reving. Expect around 8 - 9 mpg a little less towing.

I bought mine used with 6,205 miles and immediately switched to full synthetic oil, trans and differential fluid... this worth doing! 5+ years and 53K miles later it is still humming along with zero issues.

Enjoy your new rig that 450 is awesome!

[youracman]

You will need to keep the rpms up and be a little patient in the mountains. For every 1000 ft in elevation, an ordinary" (non-boosted) engine loses about 3% of its power due to reduced atmospheric pressure. So when I go over Vail Pass here in Colorado, I have a 208 HP E450; not a 305 HP rig. Monarch Pass, even worse. Diesels: a different animal. With their turbo, they "think" they are at sea level. Nice.

I am in mountains more than some, but I am in no hurry, so no problem. I am at 50,000 miles on the clock to date and all is well.

Congrats on the new rig, and safe travels.

[avfordguy]

Originally Posted by oakcreekeric

Hey Guys..

I don't wanna hi-jack this thread.. but I have a buddy who has a Leprechaun 319DS and he is looking to "improve" his handling..

I've told him about the increase in caster..

He is looking to change out the shocks/struts... and I know he already has the air-bags in the rear..

Just wondering what other suspension improvement he could do..

Thanks !!

Have coach weighed at a cat scale just to get front and rear weights, I was going by the sticker which read 60 front 80 rear. After weighing and chechicking Michelin tire chart set the front to 75 and rear to 80 made a WORLD of difference, no more semi push,one hand driving, wind gusts we dont change 1/2 of a lane going past overpasses. For a 31ft class c its solid on the road with only 4 degrees of caster.

[avfordguy]

Originally Posted by avfordguy

Have coach weighed at a cat scale just to get front and rear weights, I was going by the sticker which read 60 front 80 rear. After weighing and chechicking Michelin tire chart set the front to 75 and rear to 80 made a WORLD of difference, no more semi push,one hand driving, wind gusts we dont change 1/2 of a lane going past overpasses. For a 31ft class c its solid on the road with only 4 degrees of caster.

Forgot to add, 2007 E450 chassis stock, no air bags no big away bars. 9,000 miles when I hit 25k I will install monroe shocks.

[Grand Tour]

Originally Posted by avfordguy

First things first, we to went from a rte 0 ft DP to a large class c... here are some tips,
1. Have front end aligned and set to at least -4 degrees of caster

No. The E450, like all vehicles, should have POSITIVE caster, not negative caster. And the more, the better.

[Michael1955]

Are there known RV Manufacturers that have addressed the Heat, Noise and Cramped Quarters to at least alleviate some of those issues that the Ford E450 is known for? From all the posts pointing out the POSITIVES of the increased towing and carrying capacity, it seems folks just accept the tradeoff.

Also does the Ford E350 have the same issues, just less muscle for the towing?

I've not purchased yet, still researching, and leaning towards the Chevy Chassis for the improved cabin room, even though there are fewer RV models available with the Chevy.

Any and all comments are appreciated.

Thanks! Michael

[cdinatl]

First I apologize if this has been discussed. Put a 5 star tuner on it. I have E450 and my friend has a E 350 5 speed. We both love what the tuner does and would be the first thing I would recommend anyone buy when getting a new or used coach.