Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > MOTORHOME FORUMS > Class C Motorhome Discussions
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-22-2021, 09:39 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 5
Intermittent vs Continuous Solenoid for Charging?

Hi. I bought a used 2015 Forrester MBS 2401S in late summer of 2020 and discovered right away that house batteries were not getting charged via alternator. Took it back and tech diagnosed it as needing new BIM ( part # 00-10028-200 from Precision Circuits ) and ordered it. This is the discontinued BIM "control only" moduley hooked up to Trombetta solenoid.

This did not fix problem so I eventually brought back to dealer who then replaced the Trombetta solenoid. At first it did not appear to fix the issue as was not seeing close of relay within few minutes of engine start. But after a 45 min drive I was able to verify the close of the solenoid/relay occurred at some point by seeing 14.1V on both solenoid posts. Same observation on return trip.

I also noticed that the new Trombetta solenoid installed was a "25% duty" ( intermittent ) spec whereas my original solenoid was the "100% duty ( continuous ) spec. I ran this by PC support and Daniel could not explain why not seeing solenoid close just after start up and I asked him because the dealer ordered/installed the "intermittent" version of the Trombetta solenoid if that could make a difference but he could not say. :-(

So could anyone confirm for me that it is worth asking/insisting dealer to reorder the "continuous" duty version Trombetta that was originally installed in my RV?

I have read in the various forums only references to "continuous" solenoid installs for charging systems. Though not sure if this would allow the close of the relay to "kick in" quicker?

Would appreciate anyone's input on this. Also attaching pics of my config in left of stairs.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BIM 2.jpeg
Views:	18
Size:	128.3 KB
ID:	349625   Click image for larger version

Name:	BIM 1.jpeg
Views:	20
Size:	118.8 KB
ID:	349626  

bmetivier is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-22-2021, 09:53 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Steve-W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SW PA
Posts: 239
intermittent or continues duty only refers to the amount of time the solenoid should be energized. You should have a continuous duty rating solenoid as it will fail quickly with the intermittent duty version installed.

As far as it being energized from the PC BIM, Either version will operate the same (until failure). To test, measure the voltage on the two smaller posts, when the BIM is commanding the solenoid to close you will see 12 volts across the terminals.

You have the incorrect part for your application but that is not the reason it is not closing within the specs provided by PC. PC has the troubleshooting flow chart and specs on their website. It is not only time dependent to activate but also voltage.
__________________
2021 Newmar Bay Star 3401
Toad - 2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
2017.5 Forester 3051 -7/14/2020
Steve-W is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2021, 12:17 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,798
Continuous-Duty should be used on CHARGE CIRCUITS, as this refers to the COIL in the solenoid, and will overheat/ weaken/ burn out, from what I have read if NOT C-Duty.

As to charging on Start-up, I have read of some circuit designs that have a "TIME-DELAY built in to prevent relay chatter during/ following startup"? (or something similar?)

Starter solenoids, OTOH, will reliably pull in and connect at the LOWER VOLTAGE (10-11+vdc?) that you experience during cranking, so 13-14vdc is too high for continuous use= GETS REAL HOT= short life. At what voltage they CHATTER, I am unsure?

AND FYI/ Footnote: SILVER contact solenoids (= MORE $$) will have a #cycles rating double a simple copper contacts rated cycles, but many uses, copper lasts 10-15+years?
__________________
(TerryH.) 2000-GS Conquest Limited 6266 Class-C 99-E450SD V10
THenne1713 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2021, 05:48 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
nodine's Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Knoxville, TN, USA
Posts: 3,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmetivier View Post
Hi. I bought a used 2015 Forrester MBS 2401S in late summer of 2020 and discovered right away that house batteries were not getting charged via alternator. Took it back and tech diagnosed it as needing new BIM ( part # 00-10028-200 from Precision Circuits ) and ordered it. This is the discontinued BIM "control only" moduley hooked up to Trombetta solenoid.

This did not fix problem so I eventually brought back to dealer who then replaced the Trombetta solenoid. At first it did not appear to fix the issue as was not seeing close of relay within few minutes of engine start. But after a 45 min drive I was able to verify the close of the solenoid/relay occurred at some point by seeing 14.1V on both solenoid posts. Same observation on return trip.

I also noticed that the new Trombetta solenoid installed was a "25% duty" ( intermittent ) spec whereas my original solenoid was the "100% duty ( continuous ) spec. I ran this by PC support and Daniel could not explain why not seeing solenoid close just after start up and I asked him because the dealer ordered/installed the "intermittent" version of the Trombetta solenoid if that could make a difference but he could not say. :-(

So could anyone confirm for me that it is worth asking/insisting dealer to reorder the "continuous" duty version Trombetta that was originally installed in my RV?

I have read in the various forums only references to "continuous" solenoid installs for charging systems. Though not sure if this would allow the close of the relay to "kick in" quicker?

Would appreciate anyone's input on this. Also attaching pics of my config in left of stairs.
I believe the older version used the external trombetta and did not close the relay until the chassis battery was fully charged. That explains why it does not immediately close the contactor. The new version has a magnetically latching contactor and always connects both battery banks together when there is a charging source and disconnects the battery banks when the ignition is shut off. Sounds like they installed an older version.

Bob
__________________
Bob and Pam
2022 Quantum JM31
2020 Chevy Sonic
nodine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2021, 08:13 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 1,632
They should have installed a continuous duty solenoid. The intermittent one will overheat and burn out if operated continuously . There is a time delay and voltage sensing module that controls the operation of the solenoid, so they will both operate the same.
__________________
1993 Tiffin Allegro Bay 32'
Soppy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2021, 04:33 PM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 5
Thanks for the replies everyone. I actually stopped in at the dealer today and talked to the tech. He was questioning why Purchasing had ordered a different part. :-( He is going to talk to them about reordering the "continuous" version of the Trombetta for me that was originally installed. 👍
bmetivier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2021, 04:50 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 5
Forgot to ask. Anyone know what the unattached yellow wire could be in my pic?
bmetivier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2021, 01:11 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,798
NOT SURE, but I NOTE Just above the GREY 25A FUSE, in pic just left of end of the yellow wire, is (Maybe?) a MALE 1/4" push-on? INSPECT left side of that for scratch marks indicating that wire was previously installed? The SIZE of the yellow wire vs others also looks about right for 25a? Good Luck
__________________
(TerryH.) 2000-GS Conquest Limited 6266 Class-C 99-E450SD V10
THenne1713 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2021, 05:16 AM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmetivier View Post
Hi. I bought a used 2015 Forrester MBS 2401S in late summer of 2020 and discovered right away that house batteries were not getting charged via alternator. Took it back and tech diagnosed it as needing new BIM ( part # 00-10028-200 from Precision Circuits ) and ordered it. This is the discontinued BIM "control only" moduley hooked up to Trombetta solenoid.

This did not fix problem so I eventually brought back to dealer who then replaced the Trombetta solenoid. At first it did not appear to fix the issue as was not seeing close of relay within few minutes of engine start. But after a 45 min drive I was able to verify the close of the solenoid/relay occurred at some point by seeing 14.1V on both solenoid posts. Same observation on return trip.

I also noticed that the new Trombetta solenoid installed was a "25% duty" ( intermittent ) spec whereas my original solenoid was the "100% duty ( continuous ) spec. I ran this by PC support and Daniel could not explain why not seeing solenoid close just after start up and I asked him because the dealer ordered/installed the "intermittent" version of the Trombetta solenoid if that could make a difference but he could not say. :-(

So could anyone confirm for me that it is worth asking/insisting dealer to reorder the "continuous" duty version Trombetta that was originally installed in my RV?

I have read in the various forums only references to "continuous" solenoid installs for charging systems. Though not sure if this would allow the close of the relay to "kick in" quicker?

Would appreciate anyone's input on this. Also attaching pics of my config in left of stairs.
Having same issue. I have 14 volts on the incoming current from engine battery and 12.5 on the outgoing side, which leads me to think I am only seeing voltage from my coach battery.
When I check coach battery voltage it reads 12.5 at the battery terminals with the E450 V10 engine running. The test is performed right after starting engine. Coach battery charged at 14+ volts with generator or shore power connection.

Any ideas? 2015 Thor Majestic E450 Ford. Class C.
tmanalio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2021, 12:42 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Gulf Streamers Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 2,798
<<Having same issue. I have 14 volts on the incoming current from engine battery and 12.5 on the outgoing side, which leads me to think I am only seeing voltage from my coach battery.
When I check coach battery voltage it reads 12.5 at the battery terminals with the E450 V10 engine running. The test is performed right after starting engine. Coach battery charged at 14+ volts with generator or shore power connection.

Any ideas? 2015 Thor Majestic E450 Ford. Class C.>>
CHECK VOLTAGE TO THE COIL OF THE SOLENOID, if you have power, it is energized and should read charging voltage on both sides. In this case, REPLACE solenoid.
IF NOT energized, and equipped with a BATTERY MANAGER/ BIRD, or other, there maybe a built-in time delay design to reduce chatter during start, and/or delay while CHASSIS BATTERY is charged FIRST before charging Coach. Reading COIL Voltage at solenoid is where to start. GOOD LUCK
__________________
(TerryH.) 2000-GS Conquest Limited 6266 Class-C 99-E450SD V10
THenne1713 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2021, 11:44 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 8
Thanks. It was the solenoid. Did an ohm test also to confirm it was not energized with switched power.

I had a new spare four pole old Ford solenoid that is working great. I’m 75 years old. I don’t want to think this hard anymore but I don’t trust the garage’s either.

Thanks for your help
tmanalio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2021, 04:52 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 29,419
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmanalio View Post
Thanks. It was the solenoid. Did an ohm test also to confirm it was not energized with switched power.

I had a new spare four pole old Ford solenoid that is working great. Iím 75 years old. I donít want to think this hard anymore but I donít trust the garageís either.

Thanks for your help
That old solenoid won't last long, it's designed for intermittent use. You only start your engine for seconds.

While driving, the solenoid is powered up and connected. In time, it will overheat and fail again.

What you will soon need is a continuous duty solenoid. They are designed to have power to them all of the time.
twinboat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2021, 12:25 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: The Other California
Posts: 663
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmanalio View Post
Thanks. It was the solenoid. Did an ohm test also to confirm it was not energized with switched power.

I had a new spare four pole old Ford solenoid that is working great. I’m 75 years old. I don’t want to think this hard anymore but I don’t trust the garage’s either.

Thanks for your help
The solenoid I retrofitted into our 2005 Itasca Class C is the 2nd one down in the chart on this web page. I never want to be on a trip again and have my coach batteries not be getting charged from the V10's alternator (I probably should carry a spare one of these along - as they can be changed if necessary while camped):
https://www.trombetta.com/wp-content...ear-family.pdf
Phil G. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2021, 12:29 AM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 8
I was aware of that and that is exactly why I ordered an OEM Trombetta arriving this Friday.

Thanks. Tom
tmanalio is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
charging, solenoid



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Continuous duty solenoid failures-multiple times cobia6620 MH-General Discussions & Problems 22 09-08-2020 10:05 AM
Solenoid Repair - Coach Battery Charging Solenoid, Continuous winnie32v Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 15 11-30-2016 07:36 AM
Continuous Duty Solenoid Temp passerby Monaco Owner's Forum 8 04-07-2016 05:58 PM
Location of the continuous duty solenoid on a 2004 Holiday Rambler Admiral SE? lortiea iRV2.com General Discussion 1 03-20-2016 07:47 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.