New to forum/hello and help with upgrades!

[DutchEXP904]

Hello all!

Greetings from Florida! I'm currently "reviving" a 2000 Four Winds/Thor Dutchman Express 21RB Class C motorhome (more like motor-tenement on wheels) as Clark Griswold so eloquently put it 😂
Myself and my ever so patient fiancé have been slowly renovating this beast and have found ourselves at the point of the electrical upgrade. It had one previous owner in its lifetime and still has the original systems in place. 45 amp converter, original solenoid & fuses/breaker box. I contacted RV pros last week to take a look and see what they would suggest for a more modern upgrade without integrating solar. We also have the original generator (ONAN 4000 micro quiet) that does NOT currently work. The service rep was kind enough to draw me a diagram and label all of the existing wiring and what/where it leads to within the converter. I'd like to ask everyone's opinions on how I should proceed with purchasing new/modern electrical parts for this project. Any and all comments are very welcomed and much appreciated.

Thank you 🙏

[TandW]

Welcome aboard!
First off, I am old school. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Next, how deep are your pockets? How many miles are on the rig? The patient may not survive the surgery!

[kwftlaud]

I agree, if it aint broke, don't fix it.

I have a 2001 itasca Class C and the electrical system works just fine.
Why do you want to change it? to what benefit?

If all is working now, I would suggest spending some money on new batteries ( get 2 matching ones ) solar panels, and getting generator fixed. Most likely generator is not working as it won't start due to lack of use. Mine was the same when I got it. $25 at a lawnmower repair shop got it running.

When in Florida are u? I'm in Ft Lauderdale.
Kip
2001 Itasca Sundancer

[wolfe10]

Troubleshoot the existing system and THEN decide if repair/replacement is the more prudent way to go.


Just throwing parts at it is a good way to overly-lighten your wallet.

[Mudfrog]

Is the genset the only thing that is not working at this time, or are there problems with other electrical items? Is it that you just want to upgrade to LED lighting? Are you wanting a more efficient converter/charger that does a better job keeping the batteries charged?

Like others, I wouldn't mess with things that are working. Getting the genset going and replacing incandescent bulbs are two things I'd want to work on.

[Mark_K5LXP]

There is probably one of the magnatek or parallax converters in there which work, but compared to contemporary stuff not as "good". With anything that old there is no telling how much dirt and dust it's ingested in 20+ years so at a minimum I'd pull it and blow the dust bunnies out, and put a new fan in. Electronics do age and there's no telling how much service life it might have left. As a data point, my 2005 has a parallax and it was failing a few years ago. I refurbished it, added some tweaks and it's working again but for most people, replacing it with a progressive dynamics converter with a pendant offers a nice increase in performance and reliability, is better for the batteries and isn't a hard retrofit.

But that's a one for one replacement, when you're done you're basically where you were before. So maybe think about what else you want/need the RV to do and consider your update from the system rather then component level perspective. A new converter wouldn't "hurt" but I'd be pondering what else I might want to do instead of/in addition to replacing that one for one.

Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM

[DutchEXP904]

thank you @TANDW for the reply! well id like to think were old school at heart too. Our pockets aren't too deep, but after speaking with the RV pros rep, he suggested that the breaker box, fuse panel and converter be replaced. We have a Magnarex 6300A model 6345 and it has created a "scorched hole" in the carpet underneath of the unit. Also he pointed out the original placement for all wiring was under the sink :( so he suggested upgrading. he suggested Blue sea systems products found on amazon. we currently have no batteries installed, so I guess that would be the best way to start with the troubleshooting before buying.

[DutchEXP904]

@KWftLaud Hello, were in Jacksonville currently. Which type of batteries would you suggest? we are looking to use the rig for mostly weekend surf/kieboarding trips within FL to start and the longest adventure/trip planned is to take it for two weeks on a trip around the US for our honeymoon, so the of grid/boondocking set up would be nice but not exactly needed for what were trying to accomplish while owing it.The RV Pro rep also advised me to only fuel generator with regular unleaded fuel and to check the carborator first due to the same point you made of it being idle for so long.

[DutchEXP904]

@wolfe10, great advice, first step- buying some batteries to test

[DutchEXP904]

@Mudfrog Yes we have removed all bulb lighting and outlets to install more efficient/modern ones for less draw. Overall I understand not converting unless having to but the current system is heavy, bulky not in the greatest storage area (under sink) and we've already worked the upgrade into the budget. Im kind of at a loss with the set up mixing and matching old electrical and new and how the would be implemented with one another.

[DutchEXP904]

@Mark_K5LXP- Correct, I do have a Magnatek 6300A 6345 series converter, after reading forums that specific model was prone to overheating, fires and singeing carpets. it was also stored under the sink which I'm no electrical expert but that seems like a no no, lol
Id like to upgrade to a more efficient panel/breaker/converter situation. my main questions are: does my amperage on the new converter need to still be a 45 amp system? does the new breaker assembly need to mimic the original (tandem 30/20,15/15 &15/15)?, Do I need to keep the solenoid? do I need an inverter? in my mind I was going through all the parts and looking up the modern versions online but wasn't sure. Thanks for your reply!

[Persistent]

Our pockets aren't too deep, but after speaking with the RV pros rep, he suggested that the breaker box, fuse panel and converter be replaced. We have a Magnarex 6300A model 6345 and it has created a "scorched hole" in the carpet underneath of the unit. ... he suggested Blue sea systems products found on amazon.

RV Pros sounds like a good source of information. You may also check etrailer.com for other options. Etrailer provides expert advice easily via phone, email, and chat.

Converter/charger technology has changed a lot since 2000. A new design would increase battery life. Also, check specs to see if the new charger has lithium battery settings. You may wish to switch to lithium in the near future. Many of the new WFCO systems do.
https://wfcoelectronics.com/product-downloads/


Which type of batteries would you suggest? we are looking to use the rig for mostly weekend surf/kieboarding trips within FL to start and the longest adventure/trip planned is to take it for two weeks on a trip around the US for our honeymoon, so the of grid/boondocking set up would be nice

Size of the battery bank in amp hours is the important specification. The cheapest to install would be flooded cell batteries. The next step up would be AGM batteries. AGM tend to cost a little more. Be sure to shop around for best prices. Prices vary a lot.

Lithium batteries are the best. They cost more. Large lithium battery banks require different electronic systems. In this case, be weary of cheap deals. Many people have had bad experiences with Chinese brands and On-line Chinese companies. American brands tend to be better quality and provide better customer support. I like Battle Born brand, but many other American brands are jumping into the market.

Batteries come in endless size and shapes. Be sure to consider available space in the battery compartment when selecting a form.

For Dry Camping and Boondocking, get the most amp hours you can squeeze into available space. I would get at least 200 amp hours of AGM batteries. 400 amp hours would be better if you can squeeze them in.

For AGM batteries I use 12 volt deep draw batteries. (Not automotive engine start batteries.) A pair of 100 amp hour group 31 AGM batteries may provide 220 amp hours at 12 volts. If necessary they can be installed inside the RV near the charger.

For flooded cell batteries many people select pairs of 6 volt gulf cart batteries because they are usually cheap per amp hour and survive deep draw situation well. A pair of 6 volt gulf cart batteries wired in series may provide 225 amp hours at 12 volts.

Lithium batteries may be installed inside the RV in what ever space is available. They should be near the charger. Lithium perform better when in heated and air conditioned spaces. But for Florida outside installation is fine.

Lithium battery banks larger than 200 amp hours may require modification of the bridge circuit between engine start battery and house battery. This is necessary to prevent overload damage to engine alternators. Lots of design details apply.

I wish you good luck and happy trails ahead!

[Persistent]

Originally Posted by DutchEXP904

@Mark_K5LXP- Correct, I do have a Magnatek 6300A 6345 series converter, after reading forums that specific model was prone to overheating, fires and singeing carpets. it was also stored under the sink which I'm no electrical expert but that seems like a no no, lol
Id like to upgrade to a more efficient panel/breaker/converter situation. my main questions are: does my amperage on the new converter need to still be a 45 amp system? does the new breaker assembly need to mimic the original (tandem 30/20,15/15 &15/15)?, Do I need to keep the solenoid? do I need an inverter? in my mind I was going through all the parts and looking up the modern versions online but wasn't sure. Thanks for your reply!

45 amp converter/charger
45 amps is a good size for a 200 amp hour lead acid battery bank. 55 amps would be good for a 400 amp hour bank.

Lithium batteries can usually take a faster charge. So when charging via generator, double that is useful.

Circuit breaker panel
The Main breaker is sized to match the shore power cord and input wiring. A 30 amp shore power cord would use a 30 amp 120 volt main breaker. A 50 amp 240 volt split phase shore power cord would use a dual 50 amp 120/240 breaker.

Choose a main breaker panel to match.

Branch breakers are sized to match the output branch circuit wire. What ever wire is there determines the branch breaker size. 14 gauge wire requires a 15 amp breaker. 12 gauge wire requires a 20 amp breaker.

The entire branch circuit would have to be rewired with 12 gauge to raise the breaker to 20 amps. Choose branch breakers to match the wire size.

Inverter
Inverters are used to convert 12 volt DC battery power to 120 volt AC power. Modern RV's often use an Inverter/Converter/Charger with built in transfer switch. Everything is in one box. Some come built into a circuit breaker panel. Some are stand alone.

A 300 or 400 watt inverter is enough for a TV.
A 700 watts will usually run a compressor type refrigerator or charge a laptop computer. A 700 watt inverter would work best with a 200 amp hour battery bank.
A 1000 watt inverter requires at least a 200 amp hour battery bank. It would run all of the above things simultaneously.
A 2000 watt inverter would run a microwave or electric coffee pot. It requires a 400 amp hour battery bank.

You may wish to get a main breaker panel that has a built in inverter sub panel for future addition of an inverter. Output of the inverter would go to the sub panel side of the new panel. You would not use it unless you add an inverter.

Solenoid
Different RV's are wired differently. If you have only one solenoid, it is probably a bridge between the chassis and the house battery. Keep the solenoid in place or replace it to get new contacts. They are cheap.

Some RV's have more than one solenoid. The second would probably be a battery shut off. Usually they are operated by a switch next to the entry door.

There are "latching" solenoids and there are "continuous duty" solenoids. They work differently. Make sure you match the old system if you buy a new one.

[DutchEXP904]

Hi Paul!

First of all, wow. Thank you for such detailed explanations to all of my questions. That must have taken you some time and for that I'm most appreciative. I have decided to go AGM batteries per your recommendation. I did also purchase a new progressive dynamics 4045 "mighty mini" converter/panel and am now in the midst of transferring all of the old magnatek 6300 wires/breakers/fuses over to the new unit. I was able to wire in the AC side (to the best of my knowledge) but when I started on the DC side, I'm confused where and how I'd need to incorporate the solenoid into the new converter unit. The install instructions leave much to be desired so after reading through a few forums and watching more you tube videos on installation than I

could

count, there's no instruction on how to tie in the existing selenoid. The converter says on the DC side-I'll need to connect the battery positive (red) and battery negative (black) to the DC side of the panel but I don't have a black wire to do so. Both wires coming off of the selenoid are red. I'd really like to try and DIY this electrical project without taking it to an RV service center. Maybe you have more insight into this issue or could at least point me in the best direction. I've attached some photos to better describe my dilemma.

Thank you!

Kristen