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Old 02-02-2020, 04:03 AM   #15
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Tiffin certainly makes a quality motorhome. I don't think you will be disappointed at all as long as you are okay with the weight thing. It must be very exciting to be this close to getting one. All the best with the decision. Keep us posted.

The day I went to Lazy Days RV (Denver area) and saw that Dynamax Isata 3, I was VERY tempted to just get it. The salesmen was a bit arrogant and my wife could tell that I was going to get annoyed, so she smartly whispered to me to get on my phone and at least check out the recent reviews. Anyway, that flipped the switch for me, and I decided we did not need to deal with that salesman anyway. He really was acting like he was doing us a favor and seemed uninterested in showing us any other models or floorplans in the couple of Cs we were initially looking at. He also preferred appointments, apparently. We wandered off on our own and eventually left. It is not our kind of place anyway.

I still have not decided if I'll go with the Navion D or J and propane or diesel generator...I need to see what the diesel fumes are like. I go back and forth and will keep looking into it while I save a few extra bucks each month.
Good call on the salesperson. I am going through similar with a local dealer and the 'internet manager' won't back off when I tell him I am working with another named salesperson at his dealership. The only reason he became involved is because Thor wouldn't let me download a brochure without filling in a form that they refer to the dealership. I am particularly sensitive to that as after being laid off, I worked a couple of years at a Lexus dealership and the practice was known as "Snaking a Deal" which I was a victim of a couple of times and management went by the policy that whomever hands over the keys gets the credit for the sale. As a result his persistence, it has turned me off to the entire dealership.

Like other, I love the quality of the Tiffen but hate the OCCC. While that same dealership use to carry the Itasa 3 as more a secondary line, the one I saw on the showroom (full slide model) had an OCCC in the 600's, challenging Tiffen on how low we can go. Navion/View has the highest in the 1000 range for similar floorplans, and their cheap line Porto/Vita a whopping 1500 which is apparent in the cheapness of the furnishings from the plastic toliet on. I mention this because the Tiffen vs Navion OCCC difference may be misleading. For example, Tiffen (and others) come standard with self levelers, which if you desired them would have to be added to the Navion - that is 200lbs impacting the OCCC right there.

One thing I have found helpful when shopping but difficult when the sales person is on your heels despite telling him on a scouting trip is to take out you phone and take a picture of the yellow OCCC tag. Also learned to fold a paper to hold below the yellow sticker there can write what model it is for comparison when you get home. Otherwise, numbers just go crazy when walking around, and if not labeled, you can't remember what brand/model it was as neither are on the yellow sticker.
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Old 02-02-2020, 07:54 AM   #16
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I have had salesmen tell me things that were patently wrong. That is not unexpected, however. They likely represent different product classes from multiple manufacturers who are continually changing and upgrading features. They cannot be expected to be up-to-date on everything, but I'd much rather have an "I'll find out" than a vague reassurance or outright lie. I'm doing my own research and verifying everything they tell me.

OCCC numbers are indeed difficult to compare without considering options. Blanket statements that Winnebago is good and Tiffin is bad are close to meaningless. You can get Wayfarers and Isata's pretty high with the right options. I'm narrowing my choices these, both of which I estimate will come in around 850 - 900 lbs OCCC:

- Wayfarer 25RW with aluminum wheels, lithium batteries, and levelers.

- Istata 3 24FW with same options but no bunk.

Most of my options are to reduce weight, except the levelers which I want. Forgo that and you have a Winnebago.

Regarding lithium, Tiffin regards it an unlisted options, but with Isata it's an aftermarket upgrade. I expect both will make it an option or possibly standard in the next model year.
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Old 02-03-2020, 02:33 PM   #17
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I hear you on the levelers. I'd prob not get them BUT it is good to consider. From what I was reading, the View OCCC is around 1,200. The Tiffin (with levelers, I assume) is 700. The light levelers add ~200 lbs, I think. I'll just carry the blocks I used with my trailer and use the stabilizers.
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Old 02-08-2020, 02:32 PM   #18
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We just looked at all of these today and were cognizant of OOOC. Dynamax was coming in the lowest and then Tiffin. Winnebago the highest.

We went through the coaches with a fine toothed comb and I have to say the THOR Delano blew us away. Fit and finishes were just better across the board to our eyes. We have heard the complaints and while I believe part of that is on the numbers sold, and percentages would be close across all, I was expecting rough. What I got rivaled Leisure Travel and I am shocked.

Each one had pluses and minuses, and we haven’t decided on anything yet, but will take each out for a spin soon.
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Old 02-08-2020, 04:12 PM   #19
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Regarding lithium, Tiffin regards it an unlisted options, but with Isata it's an aftermarket upgrade. I expect both will make it an option or possibly standard in the next model year.
Dynamax GM announced on their forum that they are introducing lithium. OCCC race is narrowing.
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Old 02-09-2020, 05:52 AM   #20
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We just looked at all of these today and were cognizant of OOOC. Dynamax was coming in the lowest and then Tiffin. Winnebago the highest.

We went through the coaches with a fine toothed comb and I have to say the THOR Delano blew us away. Fit and finishes were just better across the board to our eyes. We have heard the complaints and while I believe part of that is on the numbers sold, and percentages would be close across all, I was expecting rough. What I got rivaled Leisure Travel and I am shocked.

Each one had pluses and minuses, and we haven’t decided on anything yet, but will take each out for a spin soon.
I looked at a Thor Tiburon a few weeks ago, floorplans same as Delano. I'm guessing it's a lesser line as I was unimpressed with quality. I'm also concerned about the reputation of the parent, but perhaps like Forest River, a large company can have varying quality across it's many divisions. The only floor plan that had the theater seats I want also had lousy OCCC.
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Old 02-09-2020, 02:48 PM   #21
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I realize it's not the same when it comes to price, but in our opinion the Phoenix Cruiser is far superior. We looked at the Thor and didn't like the quality, besides hearing many negative reviews. Dynamax and others were in the running but Phoenix beat them all in our thoughts. All the other manufacturers/sales lots say, here it is take it or not. Phoenix builds it when you order it and customizes much of it to your specs. They also have models you can buy off the lot, but the custom way cost no more and you get what you want.

We now have on order a 2351D to pick up the first of April.
Just out two cents worth.
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Old 02-11-2020, 11:39 AM   #22
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Looked at the Delano yesterday and virtually eliminated from my list. Dealer had two of the threefloorplans, 24TT (full slide queen/cushoined seating), 24RW (2 slide, side dinette rear bed) but didn't have the 24FB (full slide queen/murphybed) in stock, Plus Thor doesn't offer a twin bed floorpan. Perhaps the biggest failing point is that I can see the cost saving shortcomings (discussed later) to meet a price point (bicycle manufacturers do this all the time with one or two co,ponents to call it an Ultegra (or Dura Ace)bike but never the full groupo substituting out components to hit a price point. It then becomes the question - what shortcomings can't I see.
OCCC on 24TT was 869 and 24RW was 833, which was higher than expected and initially a pleasant surprise. Then realized few to no option - $9700 paint job and $433 upgraded AC to 15.0 heat pump unit. Had a "stabilizer" standard which is significantly different from the weighty hydraulic leveler.

The Delano/Tiburon twins, based on starting MSRP are the high end offerings by Thor. They should NEVER come standard with plastic toilets. Granted they are easy to swap out - but it is a sign of marketing cheapness in their premium line. The 24TT and 24FB are very similar full slide floorplans (and Thor probably should eliminate one, introducing a twin). At least the 24FB has a Murphy bed, where the 24TT has "queen bed cushioned seating underneath" Shortcoming #2, that "cushioned seating" is literally the seat with no cushioned back - literally the hard underside of the raised bed. Granted you could make bolsters for the back by why in their premium offering. The 24RW with the rear bed slide had similar issues with the "cushioned seating", but it was also dropped to a full size where the competitors maintain queen size in similar floorplans. The primary reason for this was design where the 24RW has a unique 2 person dinette with opposite side theater seating which competitors don't have but as a result, Thor had to put the wardrobe along side the bed where the competitors have dual nightstands with the queen but move the wardrobe forward, only offering a full size dinette (or substitute seating option).

Those were easy to pick up on, and the question remains - which shortcomings couldn't I see.
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Old 02-11-2020, 04:24 PM   #23
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Looked at the Delano yesterday and virtually eliminated from my list. Dealer had two of the threefloorplans, 24TT (full slide queen/cushoined seating), 24RW (2 slide, side dinette rear bed) but didn't have the 24FB (full slide queen/murphybed) in stock, Plus Thor doesn't offer a twin bed floorpan. Perhaps the biggest failing point is that I can see the cost saving shortcomings (discussed later) to meet a price point (bicycle manufacturers do this all the time with one or two co,ponents to call it an Ultegra (or Dura Ace)bike but never the full groupo substituting out components to hit a price point. It then becomes the question - what shortcomings can't I see.
OCCC on 24TT was 869 and 24RW was 833, which was higher than expected and initially a pleasant surprise. Then realized few to no option - $9700 paint job and $433 upgraded AC to 15.0 heat pump unit. Had a "stabilizer" standard which is significantly different from the weighty hydraulic leveler.

The Delano/Tiburon twins, based on starting MSRP are the high end offerings by Thor. They should NEVER come standard with plastic toilets. Granted they are easy to swap out - but it is a sign of marketing cheapness in their premium line. The 24TT and 24FB are very similar full slide floorplans (and Thor probably should eliminate one, introducing a twin). At least the 24FB has a Murphy bed, where the 24TT has "queen bed cushioned seating underneath" Shortcoming #2, that "cushioned seating" is literally the seat with no cushioned back - literally the hard underside of the raised bed. Granted you could make bolsters for the back by why in their premium offering. The 24RW with the rear bed slide had similar issues with the "cushioned seating", but it was also dropped to a full size where the competitors maintain queen size in similar floorplans. The primary reason for this was design where the 24RW has a unique 2 person dinette with opposite side theater seating which competitors don't have but as a result, Thor had to put the wardrobe along side the bed where the competitors have dual nightstands with the queen but move the wardrobe forward, only offering a full size dinette (or substitute seating option).

Those were easy to pick up on, and the question remains - which shortcomings couldn't I see.
For all of the talk about OCCC on these forums, I think the plastic toilet on this type of rig is not really much of a shortcoming. MSRP might say one thing, but the prices we have seen are pretty darn good.

Cabinetry is virtually identical to that of Winnebago on what we looked at, which helps compared to years past. Couple that with the dinette area being significantly more comfortable than any other we sat in.

I think Thor gets a lot of the negative thoughts on quality from years past and rightfully so. It also gets more attention than most, because of how many are sold comparatively. I dont own one, but its pretty easy to see that if more are on the road, there will be more complaints. Until data is out there about percentages, I am not sure any of the OEMs are any different.
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Old 07-17-2020, 01:50 PM   #24
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We went with the Wayfarer and have had a good time with it. Their customer service is awesome. Have not had any issues with the OCCC that people complain about, but we are weekenders, so we're not loading it up and don't fill the freshwater tank prior to long drives. I've driven other rigs and this one is like a luxury auto...hard to beat.
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Old 09-03-2020, 01:52 AM   #25
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The BIG thing to look at with that price disparity is what version of the same 2019 chassis using in the 2020 model. There is the fully loaded version which people typically think of as that is what is in all the articles touting the advanced electronics, and then there is the stripped version taking many of the electronics (Navigation, lane change, advanced emergency braking, etc) off. Most manufacturers don't note the version and simply note it in the price. Winnebago may be an exception with an itemized option on the sticker "Chassis Exchange Package" and a credit of $8700 applied reducing the price. The dead giveaway when looking (or viewing photos online) pay attention to the LCD screen. If it is the wide 10" spanning across the mid dash, it is the chassis equipped with the advanced features, however, it it is the smaller 7" LCD with dash fill (light dash stands out more than dark) on either side, it is the chassis without the features and thus the lower cost.

Hey Tizeye,
I’m reopening this thread to say thank you for this comment . You opened my eyes to what is going on with the reduced features on the 2019+ Sprinters.
We became very discerning observers when looking at the various models, learning to pick out all the tell-tale signs that it was a 1/2 model.
The MBUX infotainment system, drivers side heads-up display, seat controls, headlamps and dual-sided steering wheel controls all are different.
We put in our order today for our Tiburon 24RW spec build that has all of the new MB Sprinter upgrades.
Thanks again.
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Old 10-05-2020, 09:52 AM   #26
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Hello, new to this forum!

Thank you for the class C Sprinter discussion, I am in the same market!

I've looked at these same models for the last year or so: View / Navion, Delano / Tiburon, Melbourne Prestige / Entegra Quest, Wayfarer, as well as some on the Ford Transit.

None seem to "hit the mark" for us. We want the Queen Murphy bed with large slide to eliminate making the bed each night, and storing the bedding during day.

Here are observations:

-Melbourne / Quest good: Has front window in over cab bed, relatively low price, longer coach warrantee, fiberglass roof. Bad: bed only 70" long (!) I'm 6'2", flip up :( basement storage doors, no rear ladder.

-Tiburon / Delano good: Has front window in over cab bed, basement storage doors open horizontally (!) good space for clothing. Bad: TPO roof, round kitchen sink.

-Wayfarer good: The BEST basement storage & horizontal doors, comes with leveling, fiberglass roof it's a Tiffin. Bad: Low OCC, no over cab bed front window, small dinette, round kitchen sink, needs wardrobe / linen cab in bathroom, no rear ladder.

-View / Navion good: The BEST sink and counter space, relatively good OCC, best coach door, fiberglass roof. The bad: flip up :( basement storage doors, no over cab bed front window, EXPENSIVE, compressor fridge requires expensive upgrade to lithium batteries and more solar and diesel generator upgrade to consider boon-docking for more than a day or two.

Just my observations. Also, Ford Transit based class C very attractive because of probable lower maintenance costs, convenience of gas over diesel, all-wheel drive. BUT, none have enough storage or overcab bed.


Interested in your feedback?

Thanks so much,

Randy
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Old 10-06-2020, 10:58 AM   #27
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Randy, I think you gave a great synopsis on the pluses and minuses on the current MBS Class C stable.
Once we settled on the 2019+ Sprinter chassis, we found only one floor plan that met our criteria. The Delano/Tiburon 24RW with the queen bed completely separated from the rest of the house, plus the dinette and sofa opposite each other, creating a pseudo den/living room/great room effect.
If you're looking to expand your purchase options a bit, look at these models as well. They were on our short list:

* Renegade Vienna/Villagio Model 25RWS. (The 25RMC has a Murphy layout).
* Coachmen Prism Elite Model 24EE. They had a Murphy Bed layout on the older pre-2019 Sprinters (Model 24EF), but they dropped it in 2019.
* Leisure Travel Vans: There are a slew of models that have unique layouts not offered by the larger manufacturers. We really liked the Unity 25RL and 25FX. The FX uses an innovative setup on the murphy bed, plus it has a second lounge/sleeper in the back.
Also, look at the 24MB.

Since you mentioned the Transits, Thor's Gemini/Compass lines have a Murphy option on the 23TE. The slide is small (just the bed/table section), but it does hit a couple of your targets... and it's considerably less expensive than the others.
Good luck in your search.
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Old 10-07-2020, 06:25 AM   #28
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Randy, I think you gave a great synopsis on the pluses and minuses on the current MBS Class C stable.
Once we settled on the 2019+ Sprinter chassis, we found only one floor plan that met our criteria. The Delano/Tiburon 24RW with the queen bed completely separated from the rest of the house, plus the dinette and sofa opposite each other, creating a pseudo den/living room/great room effect.
If you're looking to expand your purchase options a bit, look at these models as well. They were on our short list:

* Renegade Vienna/Villagio Model 25RWS. (The 25RMC has a Murphy layout).
* Coachmen Prism Elite Model 24EE. They had a Murphy Bed layout on the older pre-2019 Sprinters (Model 24EF), but they dropped it in 2019.
* Leisure Travel Vans: There are a slew of models that have unique layouts not offered by the larger manufacturers. We really liked the Unity 25RL and 25FX. The FX uses an innovative setup on the murphy bed, plus it has a second lounge/sleeper in the back.
Also, look at the 24MB.

Since you mentioned the Transits, Thor's Gemini/Compass lines have a Murphy option on the 23TE. The slide is small (just the bed/table section), but it does hit a couple of your targets... and it's considerably less expensive than the others.
Good luck in your search.
I looked at the Delano/Tiburon 24RW and that is a full size bed - not queen, otherwise a great floorplan and the only Sprinter class offering 2 seating areas - separate dinette and theater seating - in the front. I lean more towards the more traditional 24FB with murphy/queen and separate dinette on a single slide. What I can't understand is the similar single slide 24TT but full time queen bed that lifts up (mattress fold - unlike solid on murphy bed model) to a hard bench below, and on video, doesn't appear those support legs fold onward but protract. (If so, re-engineering would be my #1 DIY project - but still don't know about the mattress folding at waist level where likely to be felt vs a knee level fold). Thor is the only one in the industry that offers that folding queen/hard bench model, as most are similar to the 24FB (murphy/queen) model. Sadly, the Compass/Gemini on the Ford transit chassis has 2 floorplans - the 23TW which is the folding queen/bench, and perhaps even worse the 23TE, the solo murphy bed/queen as the only seating - either/or - and if someone wants to turn in early converting the sofa to queen, you better like it outside.

Haven't looked recently due to limited wandering at dealers, but biggest letdown when first model arrived at dealer was the OCCC. In the 600 range, it made the much maligned Tiffins look like lightweights. Winnebagos View/Navion are usually the comparison standard at 1200lbs ignoring the fact that they leave off some heavy items that are either standard or "mandatory options" on competing models. A couple weeks ago there was a View/Navion video review where the customer had ordered every option (except theater seats, retaining dinette). The OCCC on that fully equipped was 962lb. Ignoring the actual usability of that number, it is probably a good cross comparative standard with it having every option. If other manufacturers are sub 900 as they include those heavy options (levelers, diesel gen, etc) standard then they have design problems.

Finally, the Ford transit cutaway chassis (not the unibody/van version limiting to Class B) for 2021 has an upgraded chassis that has the potentioal of being a Sprinter killer. Sadly, only 2 manufacturers are offering models on it thus far as other 'competing manufacture models", even if they have the 3.5L twin turbo gas engine, they are built on the lower GVWR/GCWR spec of the prior generation chassis. The new Ford chassis raised the GCWR/GVWR to 11,000/15,000 virtually matching the Mercedes 11,030/15,250. No surprise that has more HP but it puts out more torque than the diesel with fuel economy roughly equivalent or cheaper if calculating the typical 20% price difference between 87 octane and diesel. All are on the B+ design without the large overhang above the cab. Thor Compass/Gemini is limited by the floorplans noted earlier and are using a 156" WB, BUT they do include AWD standard! Liesure Travel Vans Wonder line uses the Ford chassis (Unity line uses the Mercedes) and have some very unique floorplans. My biggest beef with the Wonder line is that all models only have 2 seatbelts (driver and passenger - nothing in the house) where two equivalent Unity floorplans have 4 seatbelts. The murphy bed model is the solo dual use either/or, but the rear lounge model converts to a separate murphy bed while preserving other seating. The twin has huge storage and pull together for king but at the cost of dropping towing capacity down to 2000 lb - arguably, don't need a toad but eliminates the future possibility if change mind. External storage (in teens) for rear lounge version of both Wonder and Unity appears to be a misprint as viewing in video appears significantly larger. Price is another issue with limited dealer negotiation - and the AWD standard on the Thor is a $6000 option on the Wonder. On the plus side - all LTV models have no slides so all floorplans are built within the confines of the box. Also, built on the 177" WB like Mercedes 170" WB rather than the shorter 158" WB. Competiton to use the new Ford chassis with the 3.5L gas? Anybody's guess as no rumors that I am aware of. Winnebago dropped their transit based Fuse for 2021...production changeover to re-introduce with upgraded chassis? Likewise, Coachman Orion "Dealer stock Only" a prelude to production changeover? Finally, Pleasure Way has never had a Ford chassis but their website has a holding page noting their sole cutaway Sprinter chassis (all others being unibody van based) is in redesign, out of production, stay tuned for update. No telling what that will be and if they shift over to Ford with the re-design.
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