Strange outlet innards....

[Steve-W]

Originally Posted by TandW

Right off the video shows us an improperly wired "Punch-down" outlet that has a second wire layered upon the first wire. The second wire does not "experience " the same crush upon it, as did the first wire. In fact, punching down a second wire into the forks, relaxes the initial crush on the first wire and now you have a high resistance connection doomed to failure.

SCDT receptacles and switches are rated by the manufacturer for up to 3 #14 or 2#12 NM wires. The main problem is with the install not being done correctly or with the correct tool. The production tool is $$$, there is also a tool available for $35-50 for infrequent use. Both will do the job correctly.

[bigb56]

Not so easy to replace with standard boxes and outlets in many cases due to not enough slack in wire to cut for in and out situations and still have 6" of free conductor and not enough depth in the wall in many locations for the deeper box.
Not many people realize that the shallow 8 cubic inch boxes like pictured below are not legal for any device, even a end of line device with only one #14 Romex suppling it requires a minimum of 10 cubic inches, with #12 it's 11.25 cubic inches. A Romex in and a Romex out you are now at 14 cu in and 15.75 cu in minimum. Cramming all that into a shallow box is not only illegal but can cause more problems than the original trailer box.

[Ron Dittmer]

Originally Posted by bigb56

Not so easy to replace with standard boxes and outlets in many cases due to not enough slack in wire to cut for in and out situations and still have 6" of free conductor and not enough depth in the wall in many locations for the deeper box.

This has been on my mind.

Regarding your other comments concerning legalities, I personally feel it is a lot safer to have the terminations "tightly" screwed to residential outlet receptacles instead of the "push-in-pinched" type. Push-in terminations can easily develop micro-arcs under higher amperage conditions that get worse over time, and the vibrations of an RV amplifies makes it worse yet.

An undersized junction box utilizing the screw terminals (screwed tightly) may not be to code, but is safer than exposed push-in terminals commonly used in RVs.

[bigb56]

Originally Posted by Ron Dittmer

This has been on my mind.

Regarding your other comments concerning legalities, I personally feel it is a lot safer to have the terminations "tightly" screwed to residential outlet receptacles instead of the "push-in-pinched" type. Push-in terminations can easily develop micro-arcs under higher amperage conditions that get worse over time, and the vibrations of an RV amplifies makes it worse yet.

An undersized junction box utilizing the screw terminals (screwed tightly) may not be to code, but is safer than exposed push-in terminals commonly used in RVs.

I understand where you're coming from and having not had any problems with mine I haven't had to confront the situation so I don't have all the answers/solutions. Sometimes you just have to make a judgement call, BTDT.

[TandW]

You wouldn't dare eat the sausage if ever you saw it being made. Bob was laying floor tiles yesterday, but Jim didn't show up today so we have the new guy helping Bob do the electrical terminations today. Between the two of them that coach should be ready to roll tomorrow.

[Olyteddy]

The Panduit™ company makes a variety of surface mount electrical boxes some that even include an outlet such as this one:

[Ron Dittmer]

Originally Posted by Olyteddy

The Panduit™ company makes a variety of surface mount electrical boxes some that even include an outlet such as this one:

This seems to be a good alternative, as long as it has screw terminals.

[Chatham]

Originally Posted by Ron Dittmer

I too have those same cheapy outlets. This is a reminder to me to replace every outlet with "Screw-In" terminations. No trouble yet, and don't want any trouble later. The challenge with such a change is the need for a very shallow box, steel or plastic. The job is not as simple as it may appear.

A problem I'm finding is factory left very little wire to hook to house type outlets. Ordered small depth outlet boxes that are just 1.25" deep and should fit original hole.

Patrick
'05 Dynaquest

[Chatham]

Originally Posted by bigb56

Not so easy to replace with standard boxes and outlets in many cases due to not enough slack in wire to cut for in and out situations and still have 6" of free conductor and not enough depth in the wall in many locations for the deeper box.
Not many people realize that the shallow 8 cubic inch boxes like pictured below are not legal for any device, even a end of line device with only one #14 Romex suppling it requires a minimum of 10 cubic inches, with #12 it's 11.25 cubic inches. A Romex in and a Romex out you are now at 14 cu in and 15.75 cu in minimum. Cramming all that into a shallow box is not only illegal but can cause more problems than the original trailer box.

I might install house like junction box(2) and run new Romex from said box to outlet(s). Luckily, 5 outlets are near bed and I can get to the hidden factory 14 AWG mess with no problem. Problems are access to the shower basin and kitchen outlets. Inverter wiring, I ditched the factory outlet and ran Romex to inverter as well as output to Romex; all done internally with the Freedom X hard wired inverter. So ditched 2 factory outlets so far out of 10 !

Patrick
'05 Dynaquest

[Chatham]

Originally Posted by Olyteddy

The Panduit™ company makes a variety of surface mount electrical boxes some that even include an outlet such as this one:

.

I so far got two Home depot home type Leviton GFI outlets that include USB and C type charging ports. These don't have separate LOAD nuts, just has LINE screws. No sure that matters but I'll try them these and see how it goes. Waiting on 1.25" depth wall boxes.

Patrick
'05 Dynaquest

[bigb56]

Originally Posted by Chatham

.

I so far got two Home depot home type Leviton GFI outlets that include USB and C type charging ports. These don't have separate LOAD nuts, just has LINE screws. No sure that matters but I'll try them these and see how it goes. Waiting on 1.25" depth wall boxes.

Patrick
'05 Dynaquest

Patrick, that is very unusual, I've never seen a GFCI without downstream load protection capabilities. The Leviton GUAC1 has line & load pigtails, and they also take a very deep box. which model did you buy? It sounds like you may have bought non-GFCI USB outlets.

[bigb56]

Have you considered mounting the GFCI under the bed and feeding standard outlets from there, with individual lines to each one?

[bigb56]

Another solution to the shallow box problem is to use Wiremold type box extensions over the shallow box. Although Wiremold is the original there are other brands and they are available in metal or plastic. We used these sometimes when retrofitting GFCIs into existing boxes that were too small.

[Chatham]

Originally Posted by bigb56

Patrick, that is very unusual, I've never seen a GFCI without downstream load protection capabilities. The Leviton GUAC1 has line & load pigtails, and they also take a very deep box. which model did you buy? It sounds like you may have bought non-GFCI USB outlets.

I have always wondered why rv main has one breaker marked gfi and no breakers on it's bus are gfi ? Shouldn't bathroom area basin and kitchen have gfi outlets ? Not just the breaker panel?

As pictured my new gfi usb c is too tall to fit, but that noted extended facial could compensate for the dimension mismatch. I'll order a few of those beefy trim plates. I could use the shallow boxes as junction box, just need cover to close it.

You noted downstream. I have always wondered why just breaker is gfi but not individual outlets, even in basin and kitchen, no gfi outlets. Is that safe ? Anyway, I don't see separate lug for load, I see just one lug for hot line in but sane lug for load out, what an I missing.

Above is pic out lowes load put type gfi but lacks usb.

Thanks for information,
Patrick
'05 dynaquest