Used prices

[Ron750]

I thought I would be retired by now, but I’ll probably work until the end of the year. I did a lot of research on here a few years ago and decided I would like a Phoenix USA. My wife and I went to the Tampa RV show in 2020, right before the Covid nightmare. We confirmed that we liked the Phoenix USA 2910T.

I found a used 2015 set up exactly like I wanted it last summer for $74k. I almost bought it, but since I’m not ready to use it, and I would have to pay to store it, I passed. I heard it was hard to get campsites now, without planning months ahead, and that took a lot of the appeal of RVing away for me, so I quit looking.

My wife wants me to start looking again. Like everything else prices seem to gave gone up significantly. Do you think they are headed up or down in the future? Is it still hard to find campsites?

I bought a 2012 Harley FLHTK last summer without a test ride, and it needed significant repairs. I assume people recommend an independent investigation before purchasing a used RV?

Thanks.

[wildmandmc]

well few reasons ppl sell stuff,
1. don't use it anymore. 2. Can't afford repairs. 3. Dealership won't give them a good price for it. #1 usally works for me, if it's really true.
Prices i think will have to settle down. every tom, harry jane bought a camper/boat this past yr. along with ppl still trying to gain back what they had putting that together you would think rv market has to come back to reality. Time frame well who knows. When dealerships are not selling, something has to give. One more thing on the used market. ppl hearing price in selling is more than what they paid for it. buyer beware....

[Isaac-1]

I keep reading about hard to get campsites too, but so far I have not really experienced it, though we have not done a lot of travel since Covid hit, with a bit under 4 weeks total on the road in 2022, with trips in May, Sept, and December.


In May we went from our home in Louisiana to Memphis, TN for our nieces graduation, then on over to south central, TN and back home through Mississippi. 4 nights of this trip in Memphis were booked about 3 weeks in advance the rest were either same day or no more than 48 hours in advance. Finding vacancy in Memphis did require calling 3 RV parks, our next stop after Memphis was a state park, which we could only get a site for 3 nights wed-fri as the weekend was booked, though we did get a site for that sat at a lake front COE park on the route home. Other stops were no problems getting sites, some we almost had to ourselves driving down the Natchez Trace national parkway.


In mid September we took a spur of the moment trip to the mountains of New Mexico, booking stops for nights 1, 2-3 and 5-9 less than a week in advance, the rest of the stops were booked on the road or were no reservations. Our original intention was to head to Arkansas, but due to rain in the forecast the entire first week we opted for the mountains of New Mexico instead. All reservations were made at our first choice of RV parks.


December we took a very long weekend trip to Galveston Texas, booking a site at a beachfront RV park, again no problem getting a site, though in this case we were picking between one of two possible weekends for the trip, and sites were not available at our first choice of RV parks for one of the weekends, and only 1 site was available at our second choice of RV parks. Booking sites just over a week out. Of course that weekend was the weekend of their big Dickens on the Strand Christmas festival which might have something to do with it.


Similarly we were limited by how long we could stay at one RV park in the central Texas hill country on the way back from New Mexico, due to a large Jeep rally expected in the town that weekend.

[Funengineer]

I don’t see prices going down anytime soon. We sold our 2 year old Flagstaff trailer this spring for thousands more than we paid for it. Used prices are still high. I have an online friend that is in sales at a moderate size RV dealership and she tells me that many of her customers are getting what they paid or more for their 2-3 year old Class C’s in private sales.

The industry as a whole has seen price increases on new stock of 6-10% in less than a year depending on the manufacturer. Thor as an example had a record breaking 2021 and their first 2022 quarter is better than 2021. They have $18 billion in their global backlog that will extend into 2023. I follow one dealer on YouTube that hopes prices will come down but as he says; How many times over the years when manufacturers have increased prices to account for availability, supplier price increases or transportation cost increases have you later seen them reduce the price of their product?

I’m sure you are going to find some owners that will discover that the RV life is not for them or that need to sell for financial reasons and maybe you’ll find a good deal on a used unit. Otherwise I think prices will remain where they are for another 12-24 months.

[Ron Dittmer]

Ron750,

First I want to say that your choice of a Phoenix Cruiser is a good one. We have owned our PC-2350 HERE since new, bought in 2007, and we love it more with each passing year.

In my opinion, prices are currently COVID-inflated for a number of reasons, these being the big ones.

- Traveling outside the USA is more questionable, hence travel within the USA is more inviting, so RVs are in high demand, especially class B+ and C motorhomes.
- Chassis made by Ford and GM are in high demand and short supply.
- Parts for everything including RV appliances are also in high demand, in-part because of the porting issues of container ships, and the cost to ship each container increasing 10X.
- People opted to stay home and get paid from the government rather than earn a humble wage, creating a labor shortage impacting the RV industry.

If or when COVID ramps down, and I think it will late this year 2022, the prices of motorhomes in general will be dropping. If you don't plan on travelling in a motorhome in 2022, I advise to wait and see. Phoenix Cruisers hold their value better than the big brands, so if you find what you like at a decent price, I would not hesitate and buy it. Yet you never know if waiting for a price drop will happen later....right?

Regarding available camping. We were very concerned last year as you are today about this. We live near Chicago, deciding to give it a try and spent a month in late August through September, mostly in Montana around Glacier National park. We had some campsite challenges, but none were serious. We were "very" glad we went instead of staying home another year because of campsite availability concerns. I imagine our story would vary pending where we went, but that was our 2021 experience in North Dakota and Montana in September. BTW, the weather there was perfect nearly every day....we were extremely lucky in that regards.

[Marine359]

Hi Ron,
Your wife is right. If you can find a used Phoenix in good condition at the right price, buy it. Trying to guess when the market will bottom in order to get the best price is a fools errand. It’s like trying to guess when the real estate market will bottom. Think of all the time you won’t be enjoying that Phoenix. Next year you could be pushing up daisies. Prices for new will continue to rise due to inflationary pressures on parts and labor. So, prices for desirable used will keep pace. People aren’t staying home living on government checks. They’re gone. There’s now a labor shortage because people didn’t go back to their old low paying jobs. They got better ones. Labor statistics show employment is up, unemployment down compared to pre-Covid numbers. Economy is doing well. That creates more demand. More demand chasing fewer products equals inflation.

[mikf]

I have had some sort of RV for the last 50 years. The only way they are worth what you pay is if you use them. So get what you want when you can and enjoy using it.

[Tooltime2]

As for prices dropping, I feel there is one part many folks aren’t considering and that is inflation. If a motorhome held its value (in dollars) for the past couple of years it still isn’t worth the same because the dollar is worth less. This is not to say there won’t be somewhat of a correction, but prices being high have some portion of inflation as a piece of that. I don’t think anyone anticipate deflations and that would be the only way to take that portion of these “high” prices out of the equation. I agree with an above post, I don’t know that waiting and giving up the memories you will make is a good decision, none of us is guaranteed any tomorrows.

[2cyber71]

I just drove I95 back from Florida, all the RV lots are packed full of campers.
I see no shortage soon. I do see a possibility of an economic downturn.
That will reset prices.
3 % unemployment is a rare event in the USA.
Pouring more $$ out there will make the pain worse when it hits.
Reminds me of 2008 when people said I was crazy when I said Energy Inflation always precedes an downturn.

I agree if you buy an expensive RV you better use it.
In 10 yrs you will see how little it’s worth.
Use it.

[Isaac-1]

I approach such purchases with the expectation that I will get nothing back out of them, that the cost of ownership over time will negate any money received if and when I were to sell the item, and that is if I am lucky, if I am not lucky then the cost of ownership will compound on top of purchase cost.

[Ron Dittmer]

I think nearly every experienced motorhome owner would agree with this. Don't buy a motorhome to save money. Buy one and use it to enjoy the outdoors more comfortably. If your focus is world travel, then don't buy a motorhome.

Also, when it comes to motorhomes, there are good and bad ownership experiences, and those that fall somewhere in between. That is where a forum like this one becomes valuable. What you buy with regards to quality & maintenance, how and where you store it, where you use it, how often you use it, how many people are typically traveling in it, there are so many influential factors.

[NLOVNIT]

Do I think prices will head down in the future? Yes, but when? 6 months, a year, 2 years, 5 years? In the meantime, you're sitting on the sidelines waiting for the exact right moment to buy when you could be out enjoying your travels in your new or new-to-you RV. We don't buy RV's (well at least I don't) with an eye on resale. We buy to travel & have adventures in them.

I recently had a life shattering curve ball thrown me. Life is short & the plans you make for the future may or may not come to fruition. Don't waste time. If you find something you like, get it & enjoy it. No regrets.

As for campsites, if you're retired, you don't have to be at the campgrounds on weekends when all the "weekend warriors" are out. Go out during the week & avoid the weekends when sites are at a premium.

As for inspections, if you're buying used, I would highly recommend having an inspection. Well worth the price for a 3rd party look-see at whatever you're considering.

[GilbertAZ]

Originally Posted by Tooltime2

As for prices dropping, I feel there is one part many folks aren’t considering and that is inflation. If a motorhome held its value (in dollars) for the past couple of years it still isn’t worth the same because the dollar is worth less. This is not to say there won’t be somewhat of a correction, but prices being high have some portion of inflation as a piece of that. I don’t think anyone anticipate deflations and that would be the only way to take that portion of these “high” prices out of the equation. I agree with an above post, I don’t know that waiting and giving up the memories you will make is a good decision, none of us is guaranteed any tomorrows.

You are absolutely correct, inflation caused by the debasement of the dollar. This is the consequence of printing money. Like taxes, once they go up they do not go down.

[Ron750]

Originally Posted by Ron Dittmer

Ron750,

First I want to say that your choice of a Phoenix Cruiser is a good one. We have owned our PC-2350 HERE since new, bought in 2007, and we love it more with each passing year.

In my opinion, prices are currently COVID-inflated for a number of reasons, these being the big ones.

- Traveling outside the USA is more questionable, hence travel within the USA is more inviting, so RVs are in high demand, especially class B+ and C motorhomes.
- Chassis made by Ford and GM are in high demand and short supply.
- Parts for everything including RV appliances are also in high demand, in-part because of the porting issues of container ships, and the cost to ship each container increasing 10X.
- People opted to stay home and get paid from the government rather than earn a humble wage, creating a labor shortage impacting the RV industry.

If or when COVID ramps down, and I think it will late this year 2022, the prices of motorhomes in general will be dropping. If you don't plan on travelling in a motorhome in 2022, I advise to wait and see. Phoenix Cruisers hold their value better than the big brands, so if you find what you like at a decent price, I would not hesitate and buy it. Yet you never know if waiting for a price drop will happen later....right?

Regarding available camping. We were very concerned last year as you are today about this. We live near Chicago, deciding to give it a try and spent a month in late August through September, mostly in Montana around Glacier National park. We had some campsite challenges, but none were serious. We were "very" glad we went instead of staying home another year because of campsite availability concerns. I imagine our story would vary pending where we went, but that was our 2021 experience in North Dakota and Montana in September. BTW, the weather there was perfect nearly every day....we were extremely lucky in that regards.

Ron, you initially got me interested in Phoenix USA, so thank you. My wife is a RN, she says ICUs are full. My daughter in law is a fully vaccinated paramedic and she has Covid for the second time. The FDA is prohibiting therapeutic regimens that work, because they’re off label. So I’m not that optimistic that this pandemic will end soon with our nation’s dysfunctional political and medical system. So I will probably just keep looking, and hoping for “the right one.”