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04-20-2021, 08:49 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 131
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Wheel alignment & ball Joints - Really?
We are on a Ford E-450 chassis, with 84,000 miles. The front tires were pretty worn on the outside of the tires with some minor scalloping as well. We took it to a local truck truck repair shop (few and far between in our area) for the work. They replaced the tires, but said we needed new upper and lower ball joints before they could to the alignment. Quoted us $400 for parts and five hours for the labor. After that is done, the alignment would only be $125, $1,000 total for all the work.
Does this seem reasonable? Should we need new ball joints at this stage of the game? What is your experience? It's a bad thing that Ford doesn't put zerk fittings into the parts in the first place, I know.
Thanks.
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04-20-2021, 09:56 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
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Alignments don't change overtime unless something is wearing out or you bent something.
If the tires are recently started wearing on the inside only, that's a ball joint issue.
Have him show you the movement in the joints. I think you'll be convinced. If he won't, move on.
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04-20-2021, 10:49 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Kingsville TX
Posts: 1,754
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There is a Ford spec for E series ball joints, some movement is normal, check specs first.
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04-20-2021, 11:45 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 2,481
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RV's aren't cars that may never wear out a set of ball joints. One wheel of my RV is suspending more than my pickup truck weighs. Granted the parts are "heavy duty" but loads, impact and environment all take their toll.
You didn't say what year this was, but the boots/seals only last so long. Once those are compromised wear doesn't matter, they're going to fail from dirt and road spray.
As a data point, I replaced my ball joints this year. 2005 with 54K miles. Of the four, the boots were totally shot on three and one joint was "loose". I did the job myself so the cost was parts only. It wasn't any harder than any other car/truck ball joint job I've done, just "bigger". The time and material you're being quoted doesn't sound out of line. Mine were the "lifetime" /sealed joints too, but the moog parts I put in now have grease fittings.
I get why they won't do an alignment. When the wheels move independently of the control arms and steering linkage there's no reference point. So do you shoot for the middle or where do you put the error? Almost guaranteed that no matter what you align to it won't be right under all driving conditions so you're wasting your time. Check the tie rod ends, idler arm, center link, shocks, control arm bushings and pretty much everything else while you're in there.
Mark B.
Albuquerque, NM
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04-20-2021, 02:15 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark_K5LXP
You didn't say what year this was, but the boots/seals only last so long. Once those are compromised wear doesn't matter, they're going to fail from dirt and road spray.
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We are a 2005.
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04-20-2021, 02:17 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat
Alignments don't change overtime unless something is wearing out or you bent something.
If the tires are recently started wearing on the inside only, that's a ball joint issue.
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They are wearing on the outside.
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04-21-2021, 09:11 AM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 61
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Price is reasonable and I had to have one side of my rig done at 60,000 miles after one bad road in s/w Texas oil country. While their at it have the bearings packed as well.
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04-21-2021, 04:30 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: N/E IL
Posts: 1,973
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The ball joints could be worn at 84,000 miles under two conditions in unison.
1) The front axle weighs 5000 pounds or more.
and...
2) The upper and lower ball joints were never greased.
This is only my personal opinion, not that from an official source.
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04-21-2021, 06:44 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MurphyMan
They are wearing on the outside.
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Get a second opinion.
All of the twin I beam ball joints I've seen worn, wear the inside of the tires, as the camber changes. The top of the tire leans in.
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04-23-2021, 07:53 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Meshoppen, PA
Posts: 1,997
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Find a good shop...
I have done alignments and frame work since the early 80's.. I gave up alignments as we specialize elseware now..
Couple points..
Tire style/rating choice can waaer funny.. but should be consistant.
Varying load and driving habits will mess with a twin I beam .. a few hundred pound shift and 5000 miles will smoke tires..
Moving to Alignment,, Normally you need adjustable or replaced eccentrics on top of ball joints.. If the are a stinker to get out or turn.. Then the ball joints can get hammered in the process, I would change them if I did alignment since with some miles on them, any distrubing will show up later as a fail... IMO
Camber settings and bushings must be checked and replaced as under load the can deflect and there goes settings..
My E350 would wear tires a bit, I did alignment with adj cams and new ball joints at 136K. Also bushings, shocks.. . Full tank fuel. wather in tanks and mostlly loaded.. . I told my guy I also tow with 400ish on tongue.
We comprised on camber.. If I stayed towing short trips of 300-450 miles... tires would last 15-20K avg, I got mid range / off brand and just kept then fresh. last set was Bridgestomne, steering HT.. They did well with a mix of towing and just travel.. almost 30K on them when the wear was getting noticed alot..
My pont is, find a guy who has a passion for RV alignments or atleast understands the beast.. I paid $ 275 at a truck shop to align back in 2012, I did add my 2 cents to the tech, I did ball joints prior myself and added adj cams prior. He had RV off/on machine twice with road tetst.. IMO fair deal
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04-26-2021, 06:16 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: The Great NorthWest
Posts: 1,130
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We have a 2000 Tioga 24D . When we purchased it the MH had 15K on the odometer and the tires looked great but had aged out.
Had 7 new Toyo's , including spare , installed and then drove it to a National well known heavy truck alignment shop for full suspension check-up and alignment. When I picked the MH up I noticed the tires we're leaning out enough to catch my attention . I questioned the camber and was told after driving it loaded the suspension would settle and the camber would be reduced ? Sounded like BS to me , and I was proven right .
Two months later left on a 10K mile vacation .
At 7500 miles found the outside tread groove completely worn away on both front tires .
Contacted a heavy truck shop in Phoenix that came highly recommended to arrange an inspection and 2 new tires .
The shop foreman said the alignment camber and toe were way out of spec. . They realigned the front end and installed the new Toyo's . When they were done the front tires were nearly vertical , and the tire tread sat flat on the pavement.
I had the manager write a letter explaining what they found and provide a print out of the alignment results.
When we returned home I went back to the original shop with the documents in hand . After a week of review I was compensated for their original work , for the labor at the Phoenix shop and for the 2 new tires . They stood behind their work . Their explanation was they had a new hire work on my MH , later found out he had no experience and they had multiple customers come back complaining of the work that was done on their rigs.
Have driven 15K on the new tires which are showing very little wear with no edge of tread wear at all
So the moral of the story is , even a reputable shop can screw up. What sets them apart is how they respond.
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04-27-2021, 12:55 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Gulf Streamers Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 4,309
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How diligent have you been on GREASING Front end per Ford schedule of 6-12-months? Call the shop and ask them if they can show you the problem so you better understand the $1k expense?
__________________
(TerryH.) 2000-GS Conquest Limited 6266 Class-C 99-E450SD V10
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04-27-2021, 06:05 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: N/E IL
Posts: 1,973
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Nice story there Bill Gail.
My take on this is....If it doesn't look right, call the shop back right away.
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04-28-2021, 08:07 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 420
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Unfortunately, there are several things that manufacturers don’t do that would make sense and make most owners positive about their RVs.
First, do an alignment before the coach leaves the factory.
Second install a $200 EMS in the coach before it leaves the factory.
Install sign wave battery inverter/ chargers that can work for all 3 types of batteries.
Install a rooftop interface for solar that actually allows you to hook up solar panels without special wiring.
Wow, it will add $2000 to the price of the coach.
Why does this not make sense to the manufacturers?
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