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Old 03-20-2020, 06:48 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by RamblingRV View Post
If it was just me, Iíd be pretty happy in a View/Navion. But, my wife not so much. We have a Tiffin Phaeton 40QKH. She prefers to sleep on the bunk because I snore a little, and sheís such a light sleeper than any little creak will wake her, and while I snore a little, it definitely is more than a little creak. The View/Navion wouldnít give us enough room if it was everyday, all the time. If we didnít have that problem, we could go with the twin/king floorplan along with the recliners, and be fine.

There are a couple things Iíve noticed about the Tiffin Wayfarer that I donít like. It seems they all have super low OCCC. On the twin/king floorplan, I think it had about 450 pounds of capacity, including water. Iím a Clydesdale, at around 235 or so. My wife is petite at 115 fully dressed and with her handbag. That gives us 350. Together, the dogs weigh #95. That leaves a measly 5 pounds for water, food, blankets, pillows, and dog bowls. So itís obvious that wonít work. So while we love Tiffin, the wayfarer just isnít there yet in terms of weight design. Iím sure the other floorplans vary a bit, but all are similarly low with their OCCC. The View/Navion twins allow for much more weight.

About ride, the Tiffin does (or did when I was looking) offer sumo springs standard, as well as leveling jacks (real hydraulic levelers, not stability jacks). Last I looked, the Winnie twins offered stability jacks, not leveling jacks, and no sumo springs.

About the kitchen, the Tiffin offers propane/AC refrigerators. The Winnie twins use dc compressor refrigerators. They also offer a lithium battery option, along with more robust solar power than the Tiffin. As far as fit and finish go, we preferred the Winnie twins as well. Tiffin is great for the big DPs but has a bit of work to do (IMO) on the wayfarer before it is truly competitive.

Again, it would work for me, alone, and Iíd love it, in the Winnie twins. I could go campground to campground, mainly state parks, dump somewhere, stop at an rv Park once a week or so for dumping and water, and laundry, and be happy as a clam. But I would no longer have a happy marriage.

YMMV. I wish you luck either way.
Thanks for sharing. We think along similar lines.

Wayfarer OCCC has improved from the first few years. Depends, of course, on floor plan and options. Twin beds are lightest, only one small side. I've seen some over 1000 lbs. The dual-slide rear bed is worst. I'm leaning toward the full-wall Murphy bed, 25RW. Just looked at one with levelers and aluminum wheels that came in at 860 lb. Lithium batteries, currently an unlisted option, will help OCCC and other things.

For comparison, the View 25D is a very similar floor plan. Add levelers and diesel generator, both are options, and the difference isn't as great. Winnebago still wins, but I haven't found recent Wayfarer's OCCC to be as bad as the reputation. View or Wayfarer, it's still pretty tight. Doable, I think, with awareness and planning.

Sumo springs are standard on the Wayfarer now. Currently they have a propane fridge, but I hear they are going to a compressor fridge next year. Advantages and disadvantages on that one; better temperature control, but more battery drain. Those lithium batteries will come in handy.

Don't know what you mean about more robust solar power on the View. It comes standard with two 100 W panels. Wayfarer has a 170 W solar option. So a bit less, I guess. I've heard Winnebago's panels are flexible and don't hold up well. Is that true?

I really don't think I can go wrong with either. Comes down to floor plan. Wayfarer has larger bath and recliners instead of dinette.
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:52 AM   #44
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We love our Jayco Melbourne 29D - 31 ft. on a Ford 450. We have 3 slides - 220 sq. ft. open. Recently got back from a 3 month trip. We planned to be traveling for 6 months, but some family business back home brought us back home early.

Our decision for a class C was based on several factors: 1) Ease and cost of maintenance, 2) We are 80 and we thought the class A was too big for us to safely handle. 3) Overall cost of traveling vs class A.

Final thought - how much do you want to spend on a house? Some of us only feel comfortable in mega houses and others just want a comfortable home. Heard many times - floor plan layout is king in the decision. It must feel right for you. We wanted: 1. Private bedroom with queen size bed, 2) Separate shower from bathroom, 3) large refreg with separate freezer.

We traveled for about 2 years without a toad. This year our toad is a 4 down Jeep Wrangler. It is a pleasure to tow it. We have the perfect combination to be snowbirds for 6 months each year.
Thanks for sharing. We don't have a big house, and don't want a big rv. To each his own, but I still like small and nimble, but how small is too small? That is the question.

My wife has gotten into the tiny house craze. I want a tiny house on wheels.
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:58 AM   #45
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3 years now full timing in a 24' Sprinter with Winnie on the back. It's not for everyone. It's cramped but still livable. I can't imagine it however for the style of camping where someone parks long stretches in the big RV parks and just sits there doing the pot-lucks, watching satellite programming and/or drinking themselves silly each night - which of course is everyone's prerogative but simply not for me. I do have to admit also to a lot of "taking a vacation from my vacation" meaning getting out of the coach periodically to a fly-to destination to keep my life balanced.

It really shines though when you are able to do the style of camping you are talking about, but overall the RV "experience" is dying and particularly one with the flexibility you have described. The economy has gotten to where so many people are living on the streets these days and this causes the police to stay on your tail in the cities, leaving you with nowhere to boondock in a "major attraction" city any longer. Add to that if you own an older RV that may not be washed and waxed every weekend, some of the $80+++/night parks in "high class" cities will not let you park there if yours is a bit scruffy. Also Walmart all over the US is closing its parking lots to overnight'ers and in general a trip during the prime season where you are forced to seek alternate parking can be a real bummer. And if crowds blocking your enjoyment is not enough during the high season, wait until you see everyone gone and on Sept 15th, the Park Closed signs go up. So don't get carried away too much by a dream that may no longer exist.

Headed to the PNW a couple of years ago and it was fun but nothing like could been had in the past. Parks were full and I was never able to stay anywhere (without reservations, required sometimes a year in advance) except in gas stations and retail parking lots outside of a couple of nights, because everywhere was booked long ago.

If you plan to boondock exclusively, do think twice about this and that is where you will park your rig. (And that's with this small one - can't even imagine what I'd do with one much larger!) Parking in public places will invite the police to always be on your tail as soon as they see someone sleeping in a parked van and at best, do remember your dream is being carried out mostly in the local big box retailer parking lot instead of a beautiful wooded campsite which most times is a real drag that you can't get into since someone reserved it a year ago.


Now you may ask then how have I managed to enjoy it then for 3 years. And the answer to that is that I pick way, way out of the way places and if I see a place advertised, I always steer clear of it. I see none of the "USA Wonders" that most people drive to and have adjusted my demands to be substantially out of sync with the majority of travelers. That way I'm not always fighting for exactly the same thing everyone else is and that way I get more experiences than the crowds who will seek out anything that looks like it has a waiting line queued in front.
Thanks for the insight, Don. I wonder how many other people feel the lifestyle is dying. That would be an interesting discussion with a lot of things to think about in my planning. Perhaps a different thread?
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Old 03-20-2020, 07:56 AM   #46
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We are on our third Mercedes Sprinter RV and have well over 100K miles traveling in them with 0 problems. I have never had any problem finding a Mercedes dealer for normal maintenance. In addition, for the most part, service at a Mercedes dealer is about the same as it is for my Chevy pickup or my wife's Subaru.
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Old 03-20-2020, 10:01 AM   #47
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full time in a View

We rented a View 12 years ago and bought a 24d when we retired. we don't full time, but do travel for weeks at a time with a standard poodle and will soon be adding a puppy (another standard). Space really isn't an issue for us but we do like to stay at nice campgrounds with clean showers. Prior to our last trip we added a 2-door jeep wrangler, towed four down. Was great for getting around urban areas. I carry a grill and small propane stove because I like to cook and have to be a little creative--no red meat in my diet after being bitten by a lone star tick. We recently met a young couple full timing in a View with a 2 year old baby. They plan to be on the road till the baby starts school.
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Old 03-20-2020, 10:30 AM   #48
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Thanks for the insight, Don. I wonder how many other people feel the lifestyle is dying. That would be an interesting discussion with a lot of things to think about in my planning. Perhaps a different thread?
If you have been RVing as long as I have (had a 28' starting in 1990 and up to 2017 when I switched to the smaller sprinter), if anyone doesn't notice the change then I'd say they are likely single-destination or long term "large parking lot campers" and haven't been attempting much of the type stuff you identified as being a desired camping MO.

And I'm not about to sell my own 24' and move into some apartment at the moment but all I'm saying is don't get too carried away and bury yourself in debt until you are quite sure it's everything you are looking for. Also new vs. used, consider how many visits to the mechanic you think you'll make vs. that never-ending monthly payment and which of these two will cost you the most pay-out.

And I will say there is a world of difference in room, downsizing from 28' to 24'. To me, however, 24' is at the maximum of what I would accept as a constantly moving and boondocking RV lifestyle and the minimum would be down to perhaps some of the 18' ones I've rented in Alaska to NZ being the shortest I would personally accept as being a "permanent home" but everyone has different priorities. The smaller it is, of course the more zippy and more it feels like an auto instead of an RV. At least at 24' you can still park in a conventional auto slip if the space is a liberal one. While shopping in front of malls there is at least a possibility of parking and while the smaller outlets primarily have slots for the more compact autos, the smaller the lot the more difficulty parking. So if you want to use a single vehicle, under 24' is almost a maximum in my book if you are planning to remain on the move and not planning on dragging a toad along (with its own frustrations of constant unhooking while serving as your large shopping cart).
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Old 03-20-2020, 11:32 AM   #49
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With a used Sprinter choice you'll have to do a lot of research and make some decisions. (A new one is also of concern if traveling south of the US or shipping overseas is in the plan). The I5 engine (T1N chassis) in the 2006 & 7 Winnie line (05/06 chassis year) have a substandard transmission (NAG1) that doesn't last too long with 5 or 6 tons on its back and you will need to factor that in if it hasn't been rebuilt, who will rebuild it, etc and will you just put the same substandard tranny or get an enhanced rebuild. If you plan to expand outside the US or particularly, Latin America you will need to consider which generation Sprinter you want as well. The I5 (05/06 chassis 06/07 Winnie year) will have the least fuel quality requirements meaning all of Latin American diesel is OK (with a supply of fuel filters LOL) and the next gen up will require you watch the particulate filter and the most recent generation will require you sweat the particulate and funneling in DEF fluid (rather be shot LOL) with the new ones. So older is the Sprinter of choice to travel Latin America and anything you want if you are only interested in traveling the US. I have only been in the shop a few times and that was for preventive maintenance, glow plugs, brakes etc. I have my elective work done on my Sprinter south of the border and only at dealer locations where I pay substantially less than state-side.

Otherwise if you are into serious boondocking and not the type who always parks on a concrete pad, have some washboard gravel roads on your list of destinations then I would not go with anything other than Winnebago if you don't want the cabinets shaking off the walls. Now I am speaking of quality a decade and a half ago and further back and have no idea what they are turning out today because I am not or will not be interested. I'd still buy the I5 personally if you gave me the money for a new one coming right off the line.

In other areas of concern I do know that Winnie and a lot of others are pawning off compressor cooled refrigerators rather than propane ammonia-absorption types which ties a literal ball and chain to boondockers and if you gave me one of these, I'd immediately sell it and go find a propane fridge in exchange even if I had to buy a used one.

There's tons of other things to consider, especially if you are going to use your rig as an off road or overlanding vehicle which is what I use mine for. But if you are sticking to the pavement, then sure - a Sprinter based unit sounds great for you. If you are traveling with a partner, I'd say also to make sure you are at least 50% "in love" or more if you move into a space 24' or less ;-)
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:30 PM   #50
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we have Entegra Odysse 24 B ford chasse v 10
we love it .
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Old 03-20-2020, 06:50 PM   #51
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Another caveat for you, and regarding the compressor fridge. I have 465W of solar and a compressor fridge would kill my system if I installed it. With someone offering 100-200 watts of solar as a solution for compressor fridge, that just won't work especially if you have any entertainment electronics such as TV sets and laptops.
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:43 AM   #52
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We are on our third Mercedes Sprinter RV and have well over 100K miles traveling in them with 0 problems. I have never had any problem finding a Mercedes dealer for normal maintenance. In addition, for the most part, service at a Mercedes dealer is about the same as it is for my Chevy pickup or my wife's Subaru.
Thanks, RogueRV. Nice to hear your Sprinter is doing well and that you've had no trouble finding service. I suppose that depend where you travel.
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:49 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Katman2 View Post
We rented a View 12 years ago and bought a 24d when we retired. we don't full time, but do travel for weeks at a time with a standard poodle and will soon be adding a puppy (another standard). Space really isn't an issue for us but we do like to stay at nice campgrounds with clean showers. Prior to our last trip we added a 2-door jeep wrangler, towed four down. Was great for getting around urban areas. I carry a grill and small propane stove because I like to cook and have to be a little creative--no red meat in my diet after being bitten by a lone star tick. We recently met a young couple full timing in a View with a 2 year old baby. They plan to be on the road till the baby starts school.
Thanks, Katman2. Glad you find the space OK for two, but it sure would be a be tough with a child. A family of five is on YouTube living in a 24J. Kids are now teenagers. Too much togetherness for me, but they make it work.
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Old 03-21-2020, 05:59 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Don Juane View Post
If you have been RVing as long as I have (had a 28' starting in 1990 and up to 2017 when I switched to the smaller sprinter), if anyone doesn't notice the change then I'd say they are likely single-destination or long term "large parking lot campers" and haven't been attempting much of the type stuff you identified as being a desired camping MO.

And I'm not about to sell my own 24' and move into some apartment at the moment but all I'm saying is don't get too carried away and bury yourself in debt until you are quite sure it's everything you are looking for. Also new vs. used, consider how many visits to the mechanic you think you'll make vs. that never-ending monthly payment and which of these two will cost you the most pay-out.

And I will say there is a world of difference in room, downsizing from 28' to 24'. To me, however, 24' is at the maximum of what I would accept as a constantly moving and boondocking RV lifestyle and the minimum would be down to perhaps some of the 18' ones I've rented in Alaska to NZ being the shortest I would personally accept as being a "permanent home" but everyone has different priorities. The smaller it is, of course the more zippy and more it feels like an auto instead of an RV. At least at 24' you can still park in a conventional auto slip if the space is a liberal one. While shopping in front of malls there is at least a possibility of parking and while the smaller outlets primarily have slots for the more compact autos, the smaller the lot the more difficulty parking. So if you want to use a single vehicle, under 24' is almost a maximum in my book if you are planning to remain on the move and not planning on dragging a toad along (with its own frustrations of constant unhooking while serving as your large shopping cart).
Thanks again. Don't plan to be in debt. This is part of retirement, which is somewhat up in the air at present. Debating new vs used, broken in vs broken down, features I want vs cost I want. We'll see how that plays out. I'm looking at 24 to 25'. I think that's my sweet spot, balancing mobility and livability.
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Old 03-21-2020, 06:16 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by Don Juane View Post
With a used Sprinter choice you'll have to do a lot of research and make some decisions. (A new one is also of concern if traveling south of the US or shipping overseas is in the plan). The I5 engine (T1N chassis) in the 2006 & 7 Winnie line (05/06 chassis year) have a substandard transmission (NAG1) that doesn't last too long with 5 or 6 tons on its back and you will need to factor that in if it hasn't been rebuilt, who will rebuild it, etc and will you just put the same substandard tranny or get an enhanced rebuild. If you plan to expand outside the US or particularly, Latin America you will need to consider which generation Sprinter you want as well. The I5 (05/06 chassis 06/07 Winnie year) will have the least fuel quality requirements meaning all of Latin American diesel is OK (with a supply of fuel filters LOL) and the next gen up will require you watch the particulate filter and the most recent generation will require you sweat the particulate and funneling in DEF fluid (rather be shot LOL) with the new ones. So older is the Sprinter of choice to travel Latin America and anything you want if you are only interested in traveling the US. I have only been in the shop a few times and that was for preventive maintenance, glow plugs, brakes etc. I have my elective work done on my Sprinter south of the border and only at dealer locations where I pay substantially less than state-side.

Otherwise if you are into serious boondocking and not the type who always parks on a concrete pad, have some washboard gravel roads on your list of destinations then I would not go with anything other than Winnebago if you don't want the cabinets shaking off the walls. Now I am speaking of quality a decade and a half ago and further back and have no idea what they are turning out today because I am not or will not be interested. I'd still buy the I5 personally if you gave me the money for a new one coming right off the line.

In other areas of concern I do know that Winnie and a lot of others are pawning off compressor cooled refrigerators rather than propane ammonia-absorption types which ties a literal ball and chain to boondockers and if you gave me one of these, I'd immediately sell it and go find a propane fridge in exchange even if I had to buy a used one.

There's tons of other things to consider, especially if you are going to use your rig as an off road or overlanding vehicle which is what I use mine for. But if you are sticking to the pavement, then sure - a Sprinter based unit sounds great for you. If you are traveling with a partner, I'd say also to make sure you are at least 50% "in love" or more if you move into a space 24' or less ;-)
I'm likely going to do a recent Sprinter, a few years old at most. Problems with DEF have mostly been worked out, I think. Will visit Canada, but not Mexico. Definitely need to keep up with maintenance so as to minimize problems on the road. With the mileage expect to put on it, I certainly can't go with cheap cabinetry. That puts Winnebago and Tiffin at the top of my list.

I hear you on the fridge thing, but that is the way manufacturers are going. Winnebago is already there Tiffin is going compressor next year. Talking to View owners, though, they say it's not that bad. Batteries last a few days. Solar will have a hard time keeping up, but with a generator you're fine. Lithium will definitely help.

I'll do boondocking, but not real far out-there. Not what I'd call overlanding. Don't think I'll have the clearance. Harvest Host, Boondockers Welcome, kid's driveways; that about the extent of our roughing it.

Been married 35 years. I think we can handle it.
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Old 03-21-2020, 06:19 AM   #56
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we have Entegra Odysse 24 B ford chasse v 10
we love it .
Thanks. That's about the size I want. How frequently do you travel and for how long? Do you like it's ride and maneuverability? I favor the Sprinters and don't like dinettes, but I love to hear about what others like and don't like about their rigs.
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