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tblocker · 02-22-2020, 08:34 AM

My wife and I are retired full timers that live in an Arctic Fox fiver. I own no property and have no home other than the Fox. We spend summers in the north and winters in Quartzsite AZ. South Dakota is our residence and we use America's Mailbox to provide us with a PMB address. We live 9 months a year off line relying on solar for power.

I recently discovered something that I think might help other full timers and thought others might find this info useful. This is meant to be a public service announcement. It took me over two years to learn this stuff.

We've been full timing for 2 1/2 years. A few days ago I was getting propane and discovered my credit cards wouldn't work. Very strange.

To make a long story short, my bank recently discovered that I was using a PMB address which is legal for everything except banking. They locked my accounts without warning. Say thanks to the Patriot Act. After some research I discovered that the law does forbid the use of PMB addresses for banking but does allow a person to use a next of kin address. You can have a bank use PMB for mailing, and next of kin address to satisfy the law. Once I gave the bank my next of kin address they unlocked my accounts and everything returned to normal with this bank.

This actually worked for me with two national banks. When told of this law the bankers fortunately knew exactly what I was talking about. But I have encountered bankers that don't know this even though they are supposed to know the Patriot Act.

On a side note, I recently tried to open accounts with USAA using my PMB address for mailing and next of kin for physical address. I deposited a large sum of money (5 whole digit) into a USAA savings and thought all was good. A few days later I learned that all accounts are locked and USAA thinks I am doing something fraudulent. So far they've held my money and won't tell me if they ever plan to return it. They won't answer any questions, won't describe the fraud they think they see, and won't help me in any way. I've reached a dead end and they tell me there is no one else I can talk to about this. The only problem I can see is the use of the two addresses. There was nothing else remotely odd about my application. I am trying to be one hell of a squeaky wheel.

So the moral of this story is don't use USAA if you are a full timer without a permanent domicile. This is a nightmare!

I hope this helps someone.

Barbaraok · 02-22-2020, 09:07 AM

First, this has been going on for years, enforcement has picked up with some big banks being audited. It isn't the Patriot Act, per se, but the Know Your Customer act that requires financial institutions to have some relationship with their customer. Lots of people have been having trouble with different investment firms and a few banks. Your being so 'off grid' must mean that you don't routinely (like monthly) check emails, deal with the institutions, etc? They all send out letters/emails asking for people to provide addresses or they will have to lock the accounts.

Your dumping big chunk of money into USAA triggered steps that they are required to take including notifying bank regulators of any new big deposit. Yes, it might take a while for you to work this out.

Sometimes staying so 'off the grid' isn't a good idea.

TechWriter · 02-22-2020, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblocker

We spend summers in the north and winters in Quartzsite AZ. South Dakota is our residence and we use America's Mailbox to provide us with a PMB address.

I'm guessing you spend little if any time in SD, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblocker

To make a long story short, my bank recently discovered that I was using a PMB address which is legal for everything except banking.

If you don't spend any "quality" time in SD, then your SD PMB address may be ok for SD, but not everything else.

Itchytoe · 02-22-2020, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tblocker

On a side note, I recently tried to open accounts with USAA using my PMB address for mailing and next of kin for physical address. I deposited a large sum of money (5 whole digit) into a USAA savings and thought all was good.

That's your problem. 5 digits is too many digits. They think you're a drug dealer. Because only a drug dealer, or someone doing other illegal activities, would ever have $10,000 or more to deposit at a time.

Welcome to the US, where freedom reigns, unless you want to move around large sums of money. Then you're just a drug dealer.

The vast majority of people in the US don't have $10,000 combined in all of their accounts. They live paycheck to paycheck and are full of debt. Not being one of those people makes you look suspicious to the government. This isn't about your banking address. It's about your financial situation. You're an outlier.

Right now, I've got about $8,000 in cash because I can't make another significant cash deposit this week without triggering similar issues that you're seeing. You have to keep everything under $10,000 a week. If you move more than that, it better be a wire transfer.

Barbaraok · 02-22-2020, 04:23 PM

I wouldn't say 5 digits is too many, I inherited money last fall, transfered from mom's investment accounts to my checking account (electronically) and then transferred in chunks into investment accounts of my choosing. Neither my bank nor investment firm had any problem, of course we've been with our bank since 2005 and with our investment firm since the late 70s!

With new firms, start small and make resonable deposit, such as direct deposit of monthly income. That's how you establish a working relationship.

AudiDudi · 02-22-2020, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itchytoe

<snip>
Right now, I've got about $8,000 in cash because I can't make another significant cash deposit this week without triggering similar issues that you're seeing. You have to keep everything under $10,000 a week. If you move more than that, it better be a wire transfer.

So you are avoiding the $10k limit by delaying deposits. I believe that is called Structuring and is against the law.

TXTiger · 02-22-2020, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barbaraok

I wouldn't say 5 digits is too many, I inherited money last fall, transfered from mom's investment accounts to my checking account (electronically) and then transferred in chunks into investment accounts of my choosing. Neither my bank nor investment firm had any problem, of course we've been with our bank since 2005 and with our investment firm since the late 70s!

With new firms, start small and make resonable deposit, such as direct deposit of monthly income. That's how you establish a working relationship.

This only applies to cash deposits. Transferring funds does not trigger the $10,000 rule. Nor does depositing a check over $10,000. It is only cash deposits that the Feds are looking for. I have deposited checks in the six and seven figure amount with no overview by the bank or the Feds.

Barbaraok · 02-22-2020, 09:54 PM

Sorry, when I see cash, I think of liquid funds in accounts. We never have more than $200-300 in cash with us. Just no need, can always get more if we need it.

tblocker · 02-23-2020, 06:01 AM

Honestly, I never expected this many responses. Thanks all

It also hadn't occurred to me that it might be the amounts that was triggering this craziness. I'm no drug dealer. Just a retired software engineer that planned carefully for my retirement. And one that decided to live a simpler life, which is the only way I will have enough money in retirement. I am not wealthy.

I'm currently in La Posa in Quartzsite having spent the winter here. I know many people here that are doing the same thing I am and one that has a hell of a lot more money that I. There are a LOT of SD license plates here!

I do check my email every day except when I'm traveling. I haven't traveled since September. U.S. Bank claimed they sent notices, but I never saw them. Not online and not via mail.

No, we don't spend time in South Dakota at present. I may someday though. Have wondered if one could find property in the country where zoning laws wouldn't prohibit an RV. It's not possible to be a full timer in my home state.

I get the living payday to payday thing, I did it years ago. In a sense we do it now. When we spend the monthly budget we are broke, at least in our minds. That monthly budget isn't huge.

Question, what drug dealer has a 822 credit score, years of very active credit history, and tried to purchase a fixed lifetime annuity? Wouldn't that be strange?

My deposit was not cash, it was electronic transfer from another national bank.

Thanks all. Glad I did this and I think this whole thread might help others.

One question, how can the bank not return my money? Why give money to an institution that promises to make it available and then breaks that promise? Wouldn't a mattress be a better idea?

Happy travels!

Barbaraok · 02-23-2020, 10:28 AM

You need a lawyer, probably in SD, who can go into court. They have probably involved the Department of Treasury now and will have 'secured' the funds so that they can be used if agents determine there is something nefarious about you. Why did you go with such a big initial deposit?

tblocker · 02-23-2020, 11:35 AM

When I retired I only had accounts with one bank. A couple weeks ago they locked my accounts when they discovered that I was using a PMB address. Having our accounts locked like this scared the hell our of me, so I decided to spread our "safety net" around a little. What if this happened when I was traveling needing fuel and food. We don't carry much cash.

I now have to perfect examples of banks restricting access to my money.

While I was setting up the account I was told that a minimum balance of 10,000 would give me a little better interest.

So 10,000 made good sense for reasons having to do with math and with to do with interest earned. it never occurred to me that it would trigger this nightmare.

But note, this was NOT a cash deposit. It was done by USAA electronically from a savings account that I have with another bank. They did the transfer!!!!

I am thinking of putting my safety net in money market, but I need to be able to access it very quickly in the event of something like a blown engine. Diesel overhauls costs $$$$$

Thanks for the input

Itchytoe · 02-23-2020, 12:29 PM

If it wasn't a cash deposit, I think there's more to this story than we're getting.

Itchytoe · 02-23-2020, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudiDudi

So you are avoiding the $10k limit by delaying deposits. I believe that is called Structuring and is against the law.

Last time I checked, there wasn't a law that required people to deposit all their cash into bank as soon as possible. If you know of one, please direct me to it.

AudiDudi · 02-23-2020, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Itchytoe

Last time I checked, there wasn't a law that required people to deposit all their cash into bank as soon as possible. If you know of one, please direct me to it.

Lets say you have $15k cash. You deposit $9000 on Monday and the remaining $6000 on Wednesday to avoid the $10k reporting requirements. That is call structuring and is against the law.

There is lots of info online about it.

https://www.irs.gov/irm/part4/irm_04-026-013