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01-21-2022, 01:38 PM
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#43
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2021
Posts: 827
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There is a guy who lives in his RV behind the local Lowes. It was 10 degrees this morning when I was there so I peeked around the building and saw the RV. Luckily he appears to be plugged into the building now so I am guessing a possible employee. I know he has been there since the summer, maybe longer. Looks like he uses plastic sheeting over windows and larger external propane cylinders. I felt for him this morning. The rig has seen better days, but he is making it work and I applaud him.
__________________
2012 32’ Tiffin Breeze
2007 29’ Winnebago Aspect (Sold)
1983 35’ Bluebird Wanderlodge (Sold)
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01-21-2022, 09:36 PM
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#44
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Worcester Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,063
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Oatmeal, your missing the point to this energy pig at the trough test.
To push every system to the max to test efficiency on a meter that can be measured.
OP is dam efficient, but also vulnerable to time of exposure.
I learned I am near 85% efficient as OP, but deficient in the Propane factory heating appliance department. Points out system that needs upgrade.
I have insulated windows, does OP?
My appliances are newer and more efficient than OP's, so it comes down to replacing the propane heater to gain more than 50% return on propane investment. Also don't have to do the laundry walk, don't need quarters or washer to dryer swap walk, all in house.
To pass OP in efficiency per coach Per kilowatt.
I don't know about you or OP, but all my wash is done and folded too. With that same energy.
Many thanks to all for your energy consumption #'s.
I do feel sorry for OP @ 11 degrees, good luck keeping the water on.
__________________
2006 Fleetwood Bounder 35E Trek pure Trike, electric, 50 mile range, 7000 ,miles the get everything runner. To be toad list Done, Ford E450 toad. Stay & Play active brakes.
Full-time since 2018. LG 4.5 cu ft washer/dryer.
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01-21-2022, 11:31 PM
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#45
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 63
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Wow, this turned into a dick measuring contest really fast.
PS - I'm still alive with running water.
__________________
2017 Newmar Dutch Star 4369
2014 Chevy Silverado
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01-23-2022, 02:23 PM
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#46
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OversizeVan
Wow, this turned into a dick measuring contest really fast.
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At least that makes sense. I was thinking it was a competition between an all-electric Newmar in Connecticut and a Bounder in Florida for which one could use the least propane.
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01-24-2022, 06:49 PM
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#47
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Worcester Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal
At least that makes sense. I was thinking it was a competition between an all-electric Newmar in Connecticut and a Bounder in Florida for which one could use the least propane.
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Again you miss the point.
It is about efficiency of every appliance posted in (full timing) and how to lower those costs, and to physically measure them.
It does not matter where you are, but for me only living in cold 2-3 months a year. Do I invest in an appliance that burns half the propane VS payoff over time or not? Still weighing it.
One thing this thread can't teach is if the OP has a big checkbook or is in a mountain of dept. Which would negate the swing of any wise choices.
__________________
2006 Fleetwood Bounder 35E Trek pure Trike, electric, 50 mile range, 7000 ,miles the get everything runner. To be toad list Done, Ford E450 toad. Stay & Play active brakes.
Full-time since 2018. LG 4.5 cu ft washer/dryer.
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01-24-2022, 10:55 PM
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#48
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 63
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This thread delivers.
__________________
2017 Newmar Dutch Star 4369
2014 Chevy Silverado
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01-25-2022, 05:00 AM
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#49
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Meshoppen, PA
Posts: 2,005
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IMO watts are watts BTU are BTU..
1 W is equal to 3.41 BTU/h
Propane has 91,500 BTUs per gallon.
Electricity has 3,413 BTUs per kilowatt hour (kwh).
Now electric.. whatever heater you choose, oil absorb, edenpure, quartz, ceramic etc.. efficiency is the same per BTU.. electric in heat out.. now they may feel a tad different as one may linger in head and one may slight warm an object but still watts/BTU.. and sure the fan or controls may draw a few watts either way.. pipes need X amount of heat to not freeze regardless of how it is made..
A inverter heat pump may weigh in but there is a narrow range and still a conversion of energy based on gain loss..
Propane.... most efficient is a blue flame/brick heat 98% but you pump alot of moisture into RV..
a 90% condensing unit, good luck for an RV.. most are in the 70-80% range,, more so 70% as they are small and do not have alot of surface area in head boxes.. Now there may be a direct fired water circulated i some top end RV's that may get a tad more efficient..
RV's are just built in a way NOT to hold heat and / or keep heat out.. Some newer units are better insulated with windows and cieling but walls are thinner..
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01-26-2022, 05:00 AM
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#50
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 63
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I don't know, @sibe. I think that its been proven that BTUs and watts are more effective in Florida than in PA (and definitely more effective than in CT). In fact, the BTUs and watts are actually drawn to certain coaches, specifically the 2006 model year Bounders. There's just an attraction between that coach and absorbing energy. Rumor has it that they don't even need fuel to drive because they somehow create their own. Gas or diesel, it doesn't matter. That might be why their fuel tanks are so big, because you have to store all that created fuel somewhere. I'm thinking about trading this Dutch Star in for one. I'll probably have to come up with cash to make the trade happen but you can't question the science. What a POS this thing is. Live and learn, right?
Maybe 2' of snow here this weekend. Good stuff!
__________________
2017 Newmar Dutch Star 4369
2014 Chevy Silverado
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01-26-2022, 06:18 AM
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#51
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 360
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This is camping in the cold. The tiffin Zephyr is fantastic...
__________________
Karl and Janet
Tiffin Zephyr 45QDZ
Owens-Classic Trailer, with elevator and air ride
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01-26-2022, 07:55 PM
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#52
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Worcester Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OversizeVan
This thread delivers.
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But apparently you can't deliver any fuel efficiency consumption #s or costs for the month?
Did three loads of wash today on rig, any wash you do outside of rig must be added to your cost #'s for the month.
Humidity in rig at rock solid 50% stable.
Do the perp walk with quarters. Enjoy the cold.
In talks with Truma water/hot air heat @ 90% efficiency in propane. German heat.
https://truma.net/heating-systems
Perhaps I was wrong, maybe the Newmar can't perform @ this efficiency/@ cost.
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Tiffin Zephyr,, your like a unicorn,, have never seen one up close.
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@ 11 degrees you may want to crack the hose in the wet bay to dribble. The heated hose is not going to save you @11 degrees.
__________________
2006 Fleetwood Bounder 35E Trek pure Trike, electric, 50 mile range, 7000 ,miles the get everything runner. To be toad list Done, Ford E450 toad. Stay & Play active brakes.
Full-time since 2018. LG 4.5 cu ft washer/dryer.
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01-26-2022, 11:19 PM
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#53
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trx430ex
But apparently you can't deliver any fuel efficiency consumption #s or costs for the month?
Did three loads of wash today on rig, any wash you do outside of rig must be added to your cost #'s for the month.
Humidity in rig at rock solid 50% stable.
Do the perp walk with quarters. Enjoy the cold.
In talks with Truma water/hot air heat @ 90% efficiency in propane. German heat.
https://truma.net/heating-systems
Perhaps I was wrong, maybe the Newmar can't perform @ this efficiency/@ cost.
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Tiffin Zephyr,, your like a unicorn,, have never seen one up close.
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@ 11 degrees you may want to crack the hose in the wet bay to dribble. The heated hose is not going to save you @11 degrees.
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You must be a popular guy at your campground.
__________________
2017 Newmar Dutch Star 4369
2014 Chevy Silverado
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01-27-2022, 10:21 AM
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#54
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trx430ex
But apparently you can't deliver any fuel efficiency consumption #s or costs for the month?
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To what end? There's no doubt that there will be more fuel consumed to control the climate for habitability in any RV in Connecticut in the winter than will be used to control the climate for habitability in any RV in Florida in the winter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trx430ex
Did three loads of wash today on rig, any wash you do outside of rig must be added to your cost #'s for the month.
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Where's the accounting for the initial cost of the washer/dryer? And what makes you think the OP doesn't have an onboard washer/dryer? And what does any of that have to do with how well the OP's coach is going to handle cold weather?
FWIW, I enjoy discussions about energy and water consumption, and have spent a lot of quality time with my Kill-a-Watt, and crunching numbers on propane usage of my Norcold refrigerator. I was thrilled when I once stayed for several weeks in a site that had a water meter, so I could measure my boondocking shower vs. my regular shower, and how much water my washing machine uses.
But all of that is a diversion in this thread. It would probably be better to start a new thread, with a more accurately descriptive subject line, about whatever it is you're talking about.
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01-27-2022, 11:34 AM
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#55
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 63
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@oatmeal , C'mon, man!!! Don't question the SCIENCE and start looking for a Bounder before I snatch them all up and start making it rain with all the savings I'm in for.
My W/D combo might as well be a board and a tub of frozen water compared to the ultra-mega-super efficient setups that are out there. Why I bet there are setups that actually deliver clean clothes, washed and folded, that you never even bought. They just appear. Like fuel!
Meanwhile, I'm sitting in here, working away like a busy beaver in shorts and a t shirt, heat turned off, enjoying the sunlight through my obviously inefficient windows, looking around at my derelict setup, wondering if I should start counting the number of showers I take, how many times I run the W/D and dishwasher, with an interior temp of 71.7f and an oat of 24f.
Just imagine how much fun I could be having if I was doing this 'right.'
Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal
To what end? There's no doubt that there will be more fuel consumed to control the climate for habitability in any RV in Connecticut in the winter than will be used to control the climate for habitability in any RV in Florida in the winter.
Where's the accounting for the initial cost of the washer/dryer? And what makes you think the OP doesn't have an onboard washer/dryer? And what does any of that have to do with how well the OP's coach is going to handle cold weather?
FWIW, I enjoy discussions about energy and water consumption, and have spent a lot of quality time with my Kill-a-Watt, and crunching numbers on propane usage of my Norcold refrigerator. I was thrilled when I once stayed for several weeks in a site that had a water meter, so I could measure my boondocking shower vs. my regular shower, and how much water my washing machine uses.
But all of that is a diversion in this thread. It would probably be better to start a new thread, with a more accurately descriptive subject line, about whatever it is you're talking about.
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__________________
2017 Newmar Dutch Star 4369
2014 Chevy Silverado
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01-27-2022, 01:02 PM
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#56
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 569
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OversizeVan good for you for doing what you want to do. I’m another person that likes cold weather and will be heading to Wisconsin where it was -29F last week. I will be traveling for the most part and will be in survival mode most of the time. And I will love it.
Keep us posted.
__________________
2003 National Tradewinds LTC 7395
The Unbreakable Molly Brown
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