Health Insurance

[Old-Biscuit]

Domicle....state were DL/Registration is acquired
Place where one gets their mail
Place where one registers to vote
Place where we calls home and INTENDS to reside

Place where we gets their Heathcare Coverage......regardless of it they use it locally or Nationwide as 1000s of FT RVrs do

FL has Obamacare Nationwide coverage----

[TechWriter]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

But when does "never" happen? She has to pick something in real life, now.

So what would you recommend?

[TechWriter]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Domicle....state were DL/Registration is acquired
Place where one gets their mail
Place where one registers to vote
Place where we calls home and INTENDS to reside

Place where we gets their Heathcare Coverage......regardless of it they use it locally or Nationwide as 1000s of FT RVrs do

FL has Obamacare Nationwide coverage----

Are you saying that if someone doesn't actually stay in FL, it's still ok to sign up for FL ACA plans?

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by TechWriter

Are you saying that if someone doesn't actually stay in FL, it's still ok to sign up for FL ACA plans?

YES if that is their domicile of record
DL/Registrations/Vehicle Insurnace/Mailing address/Registered to vote.

1000's of FT RVrs do so....FL, TX, SD or any other state they call 'home'

[TechWriter]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

1000's of FT RVrs do so....FL, TX, SD or any other state they call 'home'

Thanks for being so candid. I'm well aware lots of RVers just get "paper" domiciles but never actually live in their domicile.

However, the ACA (aka "Obamacare") doesn't work that way. The ACA is a Federal, not a state, program, and domicile does not matter. For the ACA, what matters is where you actually reside. Though the ACA is flexible and allows you to change residence (see SEP FAQ by Health and Human Services (2016), what matters in the end is where you reside.

So if you're signing up for a FL ACA health plan, getting a "paper" FL domicile, but never actually residing there, good luck.

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by TechWriter

So if you're signing up for a FL ACA health plan, getting a "paper" FL domicile, but never actually residing there, good luck.

Why the "good luck"? Can you point to any traveling fulltimers with a Florida mail service domicile reporting an issue with their Florida Blue ACA insurance that was caused by their not spending time in Florida? Thousands of people do it.

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

Why the "good luck"? Can you point to any traveling fulltimers with a Florida mail service domicile reporting an issue with their Florida Blue ACA insurance that was caused by their not spending time in Florida? Thousands of people do it.

No he cannot..........

FTrs using FL as Domicile legally are FL residents and recognized as so by the Feds
File IRS Tax Return using your FL 'address' and it is excepted by the IRS
DL's/Registrations/Vehicle Insurance etc .......all issued as a FL resident

[TechWriter]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

Why the "good luck"? Can you point to any traveling fulltimers with a Florida mail service domicile reporting an issue with their Florida Blue ACA insurance that was caused by their not spending time in Florida? Thousands of people do it.

Nope, I can't. Thousands of people speed and don't get caught, but that doesn't mean there isn't a law, or that you can't get caught.

OP & Others Considering "Paper" Domiciles . . .

Paper domicile means doing everything (usually a lot of paper work) to indicate that you live in a state. But not actually living in the state. At most paper domicilers will say they "intend" to reside in the state, but never do. That's fraud.

The fallback position of those advocating domicile fraud is that everyone (to their knowledge) is doing it and no one (to their knowledge) has been caught.

Yes, lots of people go the paper domicile route, and most have no repercussions.

I've only been caught speeding a few times, but when I did the tickets were expensive.

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by TechWriter

Nope, I can't. Thousands of people speed and don't get caught, but that doesn't mean there isn't a law, or that you can't get caught.

OP & Others Considering "Paper" Domiciles . . .

Paper domicile means doing everything (usually a lot of paper work) to indicate that you live in a state. But not actually living in the state. At most paper domicilers will say they "intend" to reside in the state, but never do. That's fraud.

The fallback position of those advocating domicile fraud is that everyone (to their knowledge) is doing it and no one (to their knowledge) has been caught.

Yes, lots of people go the paper domicile route, and most have no repercussions.

I've only been caught speeding a few times, but when I did the tickets were expensive.

Obvious NOT a FTr....and never used a domicile that is actually a legal address & residency

Funny how the States and Federal recognize it and have no issue as it is Legal

[FLJOE]

Originally Posted by TechWriter

Nope, I can't. Thousands of people speed and don't get caught, but that doesn't mean there isn't a law, or that you can't get caught.

OP & Others Considering "Paper" Domiciles . . .

Paper domicile means doing everything (usually a lot of paper work) to indicate that you live in a state. But not actually living in the state. At most paper domicilers will say they "intend" to reside in the state, but never do. That's fraud.

The fallback position of those advocating domicile fraud is that everyone (to their knowledge) is doing it and no one (to their knowledge) has been caught.

Yes, lots of people go the paper domicile route, and most have no repercussions.

I've only been caught speeding a few times, but when I did the tickets were expensive.

I was going to stay out of this whole insurance discussion, but you just referred to hundreds of thousands of FTers as committing fraud?

We became FL residents back around 2011. After changing everything over we began to spend 3 to 5 months down here through the winter. As full timers though it is possible we might decide next winter to stay in Arizona, then travel around the rest of the year. That would be over a year without actually being present in our home state, are we frauds?

How about someone from Georgia that retires and goes full time. They might winter in Texas then travel around all year and not return to Georgia for several years. They are Georgia residents but now are they committing fraud?

Your argument does not make any sense to me. As FTers we come and go as we please. This is the U.S.A. and we are not required to be "present" to prove our domicile pal.

[TechWriter]

Originally Posted by FLJOE

As FTers we come and go as we please.

That's true for everyone, not just full timers.

Originally Posted by FLJOE

This is the U.S.A. and we are not required to be "present" to prove our domicile pal.

Sanchez v. Commissioner of Revenue (2009)

[BillJinOR]

You really believe thousands of full timers , maybe hundreds of thousands are committing insurance fraud, and getting away with it? LOL

[Old-Biscuit]

That Opinion in Link is about paying State Income Taxes.......

CA tried same thing with us when we LEFT CA and became SD Residents
We domiciled in SD in Feb and sold house in April
CA Claimed we were still CA residents under the 90 day rule.......it didn't hold up as we were LEGAL residents of SD in FEB

Blah, Blah, Blah

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by TechWriter

Nope, I can't. Thousands of people speed and don't get caught, but that doesn't mean there isn't a law, or that you can't get caught.

This analogy is interesting, because a speed limit is a known number. If you stay below it, you will never get a ticket for speeding. If you exceed it, you might get a ticket.

In the context of this discussion, what is the "speed limit"? What is the number of days a person must be in Florida, and in what time period must they occur, in order for their domicile to be valid for health insurance purposes?

Originally Posted by TechWriter

At most paper domicilers will say they "intend" to reside in the state, but never do. That's fraud.

Again, when is "never"? They haven't resided in Florida yet. When, in your view, must they reside in Florida in order for their domicile to be valid for health insurance purposes?

Originally Posted by TechWriter

The fallback position of those advocating domicile fraud is that everyone (to their knowledge) is doing it and no one (to their knowledge) has been caught.

No one is advocating domicile fraud. If you're talking about whether a person using a Florida domicile for health insurance is appropriate, that's not the fallback position.

The ACA was enacted so Americans have access to affordable health care. For the vast majority of them, it's obvious where their health plan is based--it's where they live. For some, though, like traveling fulltimers, it's not obvious, because they don't live in one place. So you look at how the intent of the ACA can be accomplished for them.

They could change their insurance every time they move, but (1) it's impossible as a practical matter, and (2) even if they could get new health insurance every place they stay, they'd be resetting their deductible up to 12 times a year, which certainly doesn't advance the "affordable" part of the Affordable Care Act.

So changing with every move is out. Which means their health insurance will be based on one location. What's the only thing a traveling fulltimer has that resembles the permanent residence of a person who lives in a house? His domicile.

The goal of the ACA is for people to have health insurance. If traveling fulltimers can't use their domicile, then they can't get health insurance. That's against public policy.

Originally Posted by TechWriter

Yes, lots of people go the paper domicile route, and most have no repercussions.

Not "most." None. There have been no reports of any problem with Florida Blue caused by issues involving a traveling fulltimer's use of a mail service to establish domicile, and using that domicile to obtain health insurance.

Does that prove it hasn't happened? Obviously not. But I'd be shocked beyond belief if it's happened and those of us who follow this issue haven't heard about it. What we have heard about is people who have Florida Blue based on their Florida domicile address, and use it all over the country without issue.

When the company in South Dakota that fulltimers used for health insurance started indicating that they didn't really want to insure fulltimers, we heard about it. And we definitely heard about it when they completely pulled the plug.

We also heard about it when Blue Cross in Texas stopped issuing PPO policies. That meant that all the people who were using Escapees for their Texas domicile no longer had access to a PPO plan with a nationwide network, and word spread like wildfire.

What are the odds that Florida Blue is denying claims by traveling fulltimers because Florida Blue has a problem with the insured getting insurance based on his Florida domicile? Given how word spread about what happened in South Dakota and Texas, I'd say zero.

But again, the bottom line is: If a traveling fulltimer doesn't base his health insurance on his domicile, where else should/could he do it? There is nowhere else.