Challenging policy regarding overnight parking

[RV-Writer]

All of my last post is just my opinion. I could be wrong and hope local municipalities will start seeing RVers as a benefit to their citizens and businesses.

[Tony Lee]

I'm afraid the days of the covered wagon rolling across the prairie, then pitching camp where ever you end up that evening are long, long gone!

Were they ever there. I seem to recall the locals had some pretty severe punishments for trespassing back then.

[vtwinwilly]

Originally Posted by Tony Lee

Were they ever there. I seem to recall the locals had some pretty severe punishments for trespassing back then.

Wow! You must be really old if you remember traveling in a covered wagon!

I've seen plenty of episodes of Bonanza, and Ben Cartwright always let the sod busters passing through spend a night or two before moving on. If I saw it on TV, it must be true!

[Gordon Dewald]

Originally Posted by vtwinwilly

Wow! You must be really old if you remember traveling in a covered wagon!

I've seen plenty of episodes of Bonanza, and Ben Cartwright always let the sod busters passing through spend a night or two before moving on. If I saw it on TV, it must be true!

Lorne Green was Canadian. Cannot park where ever you want in Canada either.

Regulations while we may not always agree are there to create a uniform society with rules that help us interact.

[harryn]

Originally Posted by Monacoach

Im with the op. We need more places to park.

Ps if you dont agree with the op do so with respect.

In theory, a company could build a high rise parking garage that caters to longer term RV parking needs, perhaps even with some hookups.

At least in CA, it would take at least 2 years to get permits / approvals and cost $ several million. It is difficult to imagine that the price would be less than $50 / night. Not sure if that is a useful price point or not.

[computerguy]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Rights vs 'privileges'

People are always confusing the two!

There are only 10 specific rights........everything else is a privilege which can be limited/restricted/prohibited

Like I use to tell Union Members (I was their Steward)
SHOW me the section of contract that is/was violated and I will FIGHT the good Fight
Otherwise......it is just a complaint and stop your whining

Well said. You can throw entitlements in there too.

To the OP, the problem is you MAY keep you rig in great shape, keep to yourself, help out the entire community. The majority will not. They will take advantage, throw garbage on the street, etc. So the laws are there to protect the majority.

If you want land, head to some BLM, NFS, etc. It's ours land and we can use that. Oh, but I bet if you are parked on some BLM land and someone parks just a smidgeon to close to you and you'll be complaining about that.

[Rvlegaleagle]

"There are only 10 specific rights........everything else is a privilege which can be limited/restricted/prohibited"

Couldn't resist and chime in. Our government is a "limited" one and is given only those powers stated in the Constitution.

Before our Constitution and the revolutionary war, the King had ALL the power except for those limited rights stated in the Magna Carta which belonged to the people.

We changed that. The Constitution gave ALL the power to the people except for those limited powers given the government. The bill of rights was deemed to be unnecessary by many for that very reason. It was also regarded as dangerous because "someday' someone will argue that the government has ALL the power except for those rights set forth in the bill of rights. Which brings us right back to what we had BEFORE the Constitution.

Over time the, "Courts/legal experts" expanded the limited powers of government by stating that this or that law was OK because it was "necessary and proper" for the government to carrying out their limited powers. Of course what is "necessary and proper" in a particular case was and is for the Supreme Court to ultimately decide. They gave "necessary and proper " a very broad interpretation since 1776 so that today unless a particular law made by the government violates the first 10 or 14th amendments, the legislatures are usually given unlimited power. Sad.

However, I have always believed the framers of the bill of rights were smart too and were well aware of the "necessary and proper" clause. With that in mind, they inserted the 9th amendment which would also serve to limit the governments' powers. It is a powerful amendment but has been given a relatively narrow meaning by the Supreme Court. The freedom to travel is an important "right" but is not unlimited. If the right to travel freely is a protected and fundamental right, then in theory the Courts' must require the legislature to demonstrate "a compelling state interest" for a particular law. It is a high burden but is often met because of some of the reasons previously stated above for preventing unsafe and unsanitary conditions. Just saying

[wa8yxm]

I am not a lawyer, Nor am I a doctor.. But I used to be a moderator in a medical forum. Why am I saying this?

IN that forum (now closed) We had a favorite line: "Your Millage May Vary". Also applies to laws.

Federal land may also be subject to state and local rules when it comes to overnight parking, also different federal lands have different parking rules as well.. Some it may depend on other things,, for example there are places where I can park,, but I have to shut down selected systems inside the RV... This is due to federal rules and may be on either private or public land... (Special case and odds of me going there approach zero)

So the best policy is to take your choice:
Ask first -or- beg forgiveness.

[chuckbear]

The lawsuit in Florida has nothing to do with rights of navigation or anything like it. The issue was that the state had already enacted a law in regards to anchoring and navigation and strictly forbid municipalities to enact their own laws or restrictions. Marco Island decided to ignore the existing state law and as a consequence, lost in court. It did NOT change the state law. Florida legislators are right now working to enact new laws that will further restrict anchoring. Once those pass, they will be upheld. The courts have ruled over and over that the state of Florida has a right to pass and enforce such laws. Parking an RV would be no different for enforcing existing laws and regulations. So good luck with any challenges. We have been involved with the anchoring issues in Florida since the 1990's. Chuck

[RPreeb]

Originally Posted by FaithBowls

Thanks to the couple of real responses. The case in FL is just what I'm thinking of. Re the sarcastic responses, yes this and my other post have a similar slant. In the America I remember, we had expressions like "don't tread on me" and "live free or die." I'm responsible and take care of my business. I don't want someone telling me where I can park. Make fun all you want but you're supporting a system of control which infringes on the freedoms our country was founded on. I'm not talking about parking in front of someone's house. I'm talking about parking in designated places which aren't rv parks. If Walmart says it's ok for me to park in their lot, why should some local law stop me? If my rig can't fit in the national park campground, why aren't there some accommodation to let big rigs stay in parking lots? Some of us want to travel the country freely. I don't need an rv park every night. If I'm not on someone's property where I'm not welcome, it shouldn't be a problem. Some towns in california have laws preventing anyone from staying in an rv even if it's on your own property. Like if a relative visits and you have 10 acres, nope - they can't stay. Yes that infringes on life, liberty and the pursuit of rv happiness. This is still America.

Old thread I realize, but I just had a small point to make on this post.

I can ask a question of FaithBowls too... if your rig won't fit in a spot where you want to camp, then why not get a smaller coach? If you must drive a coach that big, then you have placed those limits on yourself voluntarily. Why must every campground/park cater to your needs? The vast majority of RVers do not have such big outfits, and the parks and campgrounds are going to focus on that majority, with fewer options for the minority (however, those options do exist and you may have to look a bit harder to find them in some areas).

That is how supply and demand works in that free society that you are denigrating.

[udid]

Originally Posted by Jalan

If you're parked in a Walmart lot and someone tries to break into your RV at 2am who do you call? Police? Who do those police officers work for? Who pays the salaries of those police officers?

You're painting a definitive line between private and public that does not exist.

Many of these laws are now being challenged and cities are losing.

[Rvlegaleagle]

Ok, after reading all these posts, I bit somewhat.

OP you have a point. Seems like others must watch Judge Judy and still others have pieces of it right. I am going to try to play judge and at the same time demonstrate why I can’t wait to get out there RVing

The question seems to be, do you have a Constitutional right to travel on publicly (governmentally owned) thoroughfares (waterways)? (This includes Federal, State and Local land as they are ALL the same on this issue. The answer to the question is YES.

Where in the Constitution does it say that, in many places including in an often overlooked place called the Ninth Amendment as well as the additional rights granted citizens by State Constitutions mentioned in the 10th Amendment. These are often called the “Bill of Rights” and for some unknown reason many people believe that’s it folks. Wrong.

Let us also remember the United States Supreme Court (9 people) decides what the United States Constitution says (means) period. If a Federal, State or local action/law violates the United States Constitution it fails. It is all quite simple, right (pun intended).

Our forefathers understood life much better than we could ever imagine. It bordered on the Devine as did the Declaration of our Independence:

“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.”

Years after the war winning our independence from Britain, the United States Supreme Court said there are not any enforceable legal rights granted to us by the Declaration of Independence.

Fast forward to today, do you know what is is? Surely you must, remember you learned it in 2nd grade. Well I think the legal fees on that question amounted to over thirty million $30,000,000.00 dollars. Yup, tuff question that is is.

We, gave the government (Federal, State and Local) powers to protect and ensure the public’s health, safety and welfare. And you thought what is is was hard and expensive to answer. Just think of all that we willing or unwilling gave up for 9-11 under the guise of public safety? Scary.

The parking laws on public roads are passed by the elected officials who we voted into office to represent us. The Courts are famous for punting such things by failing to make a ruling on a particular issue/law and instead saying that is a question for the legislature. In other words, if you don’t like the law vote out those who made it, that is your remedy. But wait a minute here, the Constitution itself requires that certain rights not be abridged or violated period, even if the majority wants it. In fact, that was the entire argument for putting the first 10 Amendments into the Constitution in the first place.

We have a law here in Southampton Town that I think says no parking from like 1am to 6am. When I first moved here in 1995, I was having a driveway put in. I couldn’t park in the driveway for a few days so I parked out in the street in front of my own home on a No Outlet street. Wouldn’t you know it I got a parking summons on my car windshield. A motion for the law being unconstitutional was made and the parking ticket was dismissed BEFORE a decision was rendered on the constitutionality of the parking ordinance.

So my advice to the OP, pursue your life, liberty and happiness in your RV, you are way ahead of the rest Park where you can, save your precious time and spend your money on what matters to you

[MisterT]

[QUOTE=FaithBowls; Some of us want to travel the country freely. I don't need an rv park every night.[/QUOTE]

well, we've traveled this and our country to the North and don't stay in parks or campgrounds every night, and have never had an issue. Churches can be nice, if you ask politely. Walmarts are accomodating, regardless of what signs are posted. Lowes and Home Depots don't seem to mind. A few big box stores may frown on it because they don't understand it, but Cabela's actually provides YOU a dedicated overnight space: )

Some metro areas are more congested and therefore have passed sticter ordinances, but I'll bet you can still get creative, if you want, and find a place.

I personally understand the rationale behind local 'parking' and 'overnighting' ordinances, and would not want anyone just randomly parking in front of my house on my street either, but those who have 'opened up' public parking areas have also found that abuse comes with the territory, which eventually becomes a blight to everyone nearby.

I've seen Walmarts in S California, where plenty of 'No Overnight Parking' were evident, yet 40 year old half-broke trailers, truck campers, and RVs were parking right under the signs. It's not my job to enforce the local rules, but apparently the local law enforcement does not either - awnings were out, chairs were out, and several flat tires told me that these 'RVrs' had been there for a long while and were'nt planning on going anywhere anytime soon.

When we left in the morning, they were still there : )