General Boondocking and solar questions....

[Rvlegaleagle]

Am new to this and was wondering if I can get some experienced and knowledgeable comments to my situation from you.

Will be ordering a new gas Newmar Bay Star shortly so I have some wiggle room when it comes to requesting certain changes being made to the STD build.

Although I was a boater all my life and did some tent camping as a youth in campgrounds, I never stayed in a RV. My boat had 30amp shore power with a converter, no gen set.

I don't think a RV park is my style, way too crowded and I have 2 dogs. I will want to boondock, dry camp or dispersed camp. Federal forests, National parks, BLM, State or local campsites, harvest host etc. Although born and raised on Long Island, New York, I am getting out of here and heading WEST where I will be doing most of my RVing.

Game plan is to get a post pickup solar setup with 750-800w array, 440amp (6v) battery bank AGM or possibly 400amp (12v) lithium down the road. I could also get 660amp (6v) or 600amp (12v) lithium down the road with the same array.

Leaving the particular solar setup components aside, I am wondering which way to go on the 30amp or 50amp order from the factory and what practically is used while boondocking as far as battery use of the 120ac components?

OPTION 1: Get the 30amp system. There will be 2 A/Cs, one 15000 btu and the other 13.5 and I think I can get the 13.5 to be a separate line of its own with a separate second 30amp plug in and cord. The gen set (onan 4000) and the first 30amp line plug in will only run the 15000 and all other a/c powered components.

The second 30amp and 13.5 a/c will run if plugged in and will also be connected to the inverter/charger with a soft start prior to the transfer switch so it can run off the batteries with solar on good days The inverter/charger will also be setup so it can run, at my selection, EVERYTHING A/C except for the water heater and 15000 A/C. Note: Ref will NOT be a residential one but a 3 way RV ref.

OPTION 2: Get the more expensive upgraded 50amp service with the larger 5500 gen set. The only thing the 50amp service would be able to also run is the second 13.5 A/C. Any other option that required a 50amp service such as the fireplace/heater is NOT being ordered.

I can still have the 13.5 A/C run off the batteries with solar on good days as described in option 1 and when at a park plugged into a 50amp service or when running the 5500 gen set. I have been told that in many places there is only a 30amp plug in service available and that while there is an adaptor from a 30 to a 50, you can't run both A/Cs and/or have to limit your use of other A/C components. Also, I don't think with the 50amp service I can also have that separate 30amp plug in and cord that just runs the 13.5 A/C?

I also believe that all the wiring sizes from the panel that run to all the individual A/C components is the same size wire whether you get the 30amp or 50amp service? Only some breakers and wiring from the 50amp post plug in to the panel are different between the 30amp and 50amp service?

PLAN: My goal is to be able to use solar and batteries as much as possible for ALL A/C components, including the 13.5 A/C on good days. The second goal is to use a smaller gen set, if possible, to run ALL A/C components and to use it as little as possible. The final goal is to be economically and power efficient as possible, weigh as little as possible for OCC purposes and boondock as long as possible.

I know this was rather long and I put in as much information as possible for your consideration. Any comments, experiences and knowledge from you would be greatly appreciated Thanks in advance.

[PbdBlue]

Get the 50A with the 5500 genset. With dual AC's, the water heater on electric and running the microwave, etc. you will have to load share on 30A. I don't think there's a dramatic difference in fuel consumption between the 4KW and 5.5KW gensets given the same load. The 4KW will struggle at higher elevations and high temps. You're solar plan sounds pretty adequate though I think you will find it is not practical to run the AC's on solar. 800 watts will not be enough to keep up. If fuel economy is a concern consider using a small 2000 watt inverter generator (Honda, Champion, etc) when not running the AC's. They are way more economical.

[John Hilley]

I agree with PbdBlue, get the 50 amp electric. you should still be able to get the separate 20 amp for the second AC from the factory. You should be able to run both ACs on 30 amp if you don't run much else simultaneously.

[Reed Cundiff]

If going to mountain West (7500' or higher elevation), you will not need air conditioning. Solar and LFP battery bank can run one air conditioner (1400 W and 9 kW-hr LFP bank) for 4 or 5 hours before getting below 50% SOC.

If you do plan to spend time elsewhere in summer, then you probably do need a good sized generator and 50 amp capability. It can get miserably hot going across the Midwest in summer.
Reed and Elaine

[computerguy]

Sometimes, as much as you plan, it just doesn't work out the way you wanted to. To really do it right would mean to rewire much of the RV. I'd love to run my AC but just don't want to do the re-wiring necessary and upgrading the inverter.
You say you are headed out west. FYI, at altitude 5500 will have a tough time to keep up with 2 AC's, water heater, microwave etc IMO.
From Onan generator manual:

"Effects Of High Altitude And Extreme Temperatures
If you travel at high altitudes or in extreme temperatures, your generator can lose power. In such lower-density air conditions, you can’t operate as many electrical devices as you could under normal operating conditions.
Power decreases 3.5% for each 1,000 feet above an altitude of 500 feet. For example, to operate at 4,500 feet (4,000 feet above rated generator altitude) multiply 3.5% x 4 (4,000 ft) = 14% power loss. Then multiply .14 x your generator’s power rating: 4,000 watts x .14 = a loss of 560 watts at that altitude.
Power decreases in extreme temperatures by 1% for each 10°F (5.5°C) above 77°F (25°C)."

I would never get 30 A service in a class A either.
As much as you want to get it perfect that is a difficult thing to do. You'll get a number of different opinions on here and some will actually be useful. Be careful which one you actually choose as the others may be more appropriate for your intended use.
Don't mean to sound difficult or negative but there are so many ins and outs. Different ways to do things. Pros and cons for doing it one way vs the other. Good and bad info on forums.
"KISS" is my best advice. Be prepared to dig in and fix things yourself when (not if) things go haywire because they will.
Let us know what you decide.

[Rvlegaleagle]

Thanks for what you have said on here so far Would like as much constructive criticism and options as possible, it actually helps

Let me add the important solar stuff....going with Magnum all the way because it all connects to and is controlled from one display. (ME-ARC). The connections between the MTTP solar controller (PT-100) and the 3000 (MSH3012) hybrid inverter/charger with auto gen start switch are simple and then you have a complete and integrated solar system.
(leaving the panels and battery bank out of the equation)

Given this setup you can understand the choice between the 30 vs 50 amp system and costs, functionality, weight and purpose of the 4000 vs 5000 gen set.

I don't know for sure but I have heard, that campgrounds with a 30amp only shore power can run the 15000 A/C and everything else 12v and 120v in the rig. (regular micro not convection maybe use it for 2 minutes to heat something up, Not into hair dryers, the hot water heater will not be run on electric nor will the 13.5 A/C run off that 30amp cord). In that instance, it is my understanding that when there is 30amp service there is usually a 20 amp plug in there as well which with an adaptor from 30 to 20amp I can plug in the second shore power cord and run the separately wired small 13.5 A/C with soft start as it will be the ONLY thing on that line.

If there is a only a 50amp service available at a campsite, then you can, I think, use a Y adapter from the 50 to two (2) 30amp power cords run to each 30amp plug in to the rig and do the same thing. Everything will work. While it is true you get 100 amps out of a 50amp service and 12000 watts (6000w on each leg)....my rig is set up so that I don't think I have a need for such power while at a campsite? Maybe I am wrong.

Boondocking with Gen power at 4000w will run the 15000 A/C and everything A/C and 12v and charge the batteries in the am for a few hours (2-3). With the hybrid inverter/charger on a good solar day I can further charge the batteries at a higher charge rate than the gen did, run the A/C stuff and sneak in some 13.5 A/C time in the afternoon in an already cooled down coach.

On a bad solar day, I can just run the gen with just the 15000 A/C but typically on a bad solar day the sun, by definition, is not out much or it is raining If it is a half good day I can run the 4000 gen for the 15000 A/C AND use the solar to boost it so I can also run the 13.5 A/C.

Would rather save the $$$ by keeping the STD 4000 30amp and not upgrading to the 50amp 5500 and put it towards the solar system and battery bank.

All comments are welcomed and really appreciated The more the better IMHO.

[Rvlegaleagle]

Here is a video of the control display:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIW8U5UWZlk

[Rvlegaleagle]

And another with the same monitor and demonstration using various 120v things and what they use from the batteries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jz5QTrtaHAo&t=201

[PbdBlue]

First how big is the rig you are looking at buying? Second assuming for the moment that running the AC's off solar is not practical what else do you intend to power with the inverter? I have no idea what the upgrade to 50A\5500 gen costs but I have a feeling that down the road if things don't work out as you planned you'll regret not getting it.

[powercat_ras]

If you have a 30 Amp Service and a 4000 watt generator with 30 amp output then the main issue is that running the Microwave and AC at the same time will draw over 30 amps and trip a breaker or cause the generator to overload and shut down. That said, it is easy to manually manage this by temporarily shutting of the AC when using the microwave. Any other large appliance in the RV that uses 1500 watts can interact with the AC in the same way.

There will be times when you won't be able to cool down your RV as fast as you want or get and keep it as cool as you want if you only have one AC, that is a huge benefit of the 50 Amp Electric Package with 2 roof top air conditioners.

When you camp with 50 Amp Electric the other advantage is that when it is not smokin hot where you don't need both AC, you can run the one that is the opposite part of the RV from what you are using and have less noise where you are at in the RV.

[Duoglide1]

As we age I'm well aware that the day may come that we will have to be parked in Houston/Phoenix/somewhere for medical treatments of some kind during weather that we would not normally choose. I would not want to be at the mercy of a 30amp system. Good luck.

We are full time, you may not choose that route in which case this would not be a valid point.

[Rvlegaleagle]

The rig is the 2018 Bay Star 3401 with enough clear space all the way from the front to rear caps on the drivers' side of the rig to put 5 panels that can tilt.

As I understand it, the Magnum hybrid inverter/charger can supplement the gen set with solar and/or batt bank thereby keeping it from tripping if the load would otherwise exceed its output by reducing the load on the gen set.

There will be 2 A/Cs one 15000 running off the std 30amp with everything else A/C (will use only propane for the hot water heater).

The other 13.5 A/C with soft start will run off solar and/or batt bank through a second separate 30amp circuit (actually drawing only 20amps) with only that A/C being in that circuit.

At a campground with only 30amp service will use the extra 20amp plug in for the 13.5 A/C. I don't think a 50amp system would be of any benefit when there is not 50amp service?

If there is only a 50amp service available for whatever reason, I think I can use a Y 50amp to 2 30amp adaptors and plug in both 30amp plugs into it permitting me to use the one 30amp leg for the Std 30 amp service to the rig and the second 30amp cord which will only actually use 20amp giving me use of the 2nd 13.5 A/C.

The upgrade from the 30amp system to the 50amp system on the rig is over $2,000. Rather use this $$ for better battery bank.

Really appreciate all of the comments from you. It is a close call for me given my intended use which at this point is primarily boondocking with gen and solar. Have a few weeks to make my decision. Going to the Hershey RV show and then to Newmar factory later in September before I place my order

[Rvlegaleagle]

Here is what I am talking about:

Big RV: Little Generator – Downsizing to a 2500W Propane Generator | Technomadia

[PbdBlue]

Originally Posted by Rvlegaleagle

Here is what I am talking about:

Big RV: Little Generator – Downsizing to a 2500W Propane Generator | Technomadia

Yeah I get that but we're not talking about 9KW vs 2.5KW. The difference in fuel consumption between an Onan 4K and 5.5K is negligable. If you want economy then a 2KW Honda is WAY more efficient than either of the Onan offerings. Still another thing to consider is that many of us run the genset and the roof AC's while driving. In hot weather the dash air alone will not cut it. Solar is fine and dandy IF you have sun. In your plan for multiple solar panels are you taking into account shading that may occur from nearby objects (AC units, vents, etc)? These will have a significant impact on your daily solar total output if adequate clearance is not provided around them. Last but not least is the issue of tilting panels. Yes they are optimum but many owners quickly tire of the hassle of climbing up on the roof to raise and lower them constantly. To me this about options and flexabitlity. If it were me I'd do the things you are suggesting AND do the 50A\5550 upgrade. It's only money - haha