 |
|
02-10-2024, 08:43 AM
|
#1
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 32
|
Help with creating a boondocking site
Hello to all and hoping this is the beginning of a friendly relationship.
So, I do not own an RV/Camper as yet. I do own some land in Vermont that I'm setting up as a place others can use to camp on for free. I camped there last October for the first time in a tent with my dog, Chester, and we had a great time. Last time I slept over in a tent I was 16 and that was a very, very long time ago.
I have since learned about something called boondocking... or dry camping or dispersed camping. All names for kind of the same thing, I guess. Camping without access to external water, electrical and waste hookups.
From what I can find on the various apps and web sites, Vermont, like many of the eastern US states, is not exactly a hotbed for free vehicle-attached camping like you might find in the west. Not sure why that is (?). There is also no BLM land around this part of the country.
Part of the land I own has a section of around 1.5 acres that abuts a well traveled road. It just might make a very nice small, free boondocking-type site. It is right next to a river and has some tree coverage towards the back but is open on the street side. It will take some work to make it usable... but, that's not an issue for me.
There are no other free sites of any kind (i.e. not even Walmart, Crackerbarrel, etc.) anywhere near me... only a paid campsite about 12 miles away.
So, to that end, I'd like to get some input from you RVers who might look for this kind of thing.
1) How much driveway/turnaround do you require to get your rig in and out of an area? Must it be a drive through or can you back out?
2) I see some boondocking videos where RVers complain about the surface not being completely flat. Is this a big deal for most folks and how flat is flat?
3) Like I said, this is a well travelled road leading towards a major skiing/vacation area in southern Vermont. There is some traffic up until the early morning hours so one can expect to hear it. Is that a major deal breaker for staying there?
4) I plan to sink a shallow well. Vermont lets land owners do that themelves... 20' deep or less... which should work for me being there is a river nearby. Is a well (hand pump type) something you would make use of?
I'm not certain this will work for all types of campers, but certainly the smaller ones... 18 to 25', pop-ups, on-truck types, tents and that kind of thing, for sure. Will know more when the snow melts and I can get in there. It may be that in this particular case it is more like free overnight parking near a river.
Not that that is such a bad thing, right?
Any comments or suggestions... positive or negative... will be most appreciated.
This will help me to make a decision as to whether this is even worth doing.
PS: I will check with the local zoning officials to make sure this will be allowed. So far, I've found that by telling them in advance what I'm wanting to do, they tend to go along with it. Keeping them in the loop shows respect.
|
|
|
 |
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
02-10-2024, 09:18 AM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin
Posts: 5,896
|
"I do own some land in Vermont that I'm setting up as a place others can use to camp on for free."
I agree offering space to others seems so good. I wish life were that simple.
On the other hand, there are a significant number of dead beats out there who will quickly cause you to reconsider. You may even become responsible for damage caused to neighbor's property. Cleaning up trash is a given. Cleaning up dumped human waste is likely.
Some people will choose to squat on the river bank. You may be responsible for contaminated water.
Cutting open spaces at least once per year is probably necessary to maintain what you see now.
Evicting squatters is difficult and possibly dangerous.
Managing a camp site is a significant issue. Consult with the manager of the nearby RV campground for horror stories.
I recommend you only allow people you know to use the site. If you install driveway access, make provisions to block the driveway and include a "No Trespassing" sign.
Part of the land I own has a section of around 1.5 acres that abuts a well traveled road. It just might make a very nice small, free boondocking-type site. It is right next to a river and has some tree coverage towards the back but is open on the street side. It will take some work to make it usable... but, that's not an issue for me.
https://i.postimg.cc/4y7Wfym5/boonsite-top.jpg
So, to that end, I'd like to get some input from you RVers who might look for this kind of thing."
"1) How much driveway/turnaround do you require to get your rig in and out of an area? Must it be a drive through or can you back out?"
A simple gravel pad with gravel to the paved public road is good. A gentle curve is OK.
For 1.5 acres, a turn around is usually not required. A "T" turn at the end would be helpful. A turn around would take a lot of space.
A wide entry for turning and backing in is required (two or three lanes at intersection, narrowing to one lane to pad is good.
"2) I see some boondocking videos where RVers complain about the surface not being completely flat. Is this a big deal for most folks and how flat is flat?"
Small vehicles can be leveled on any thing you would like to drive on. Large vehicles work better with level spaces.
Many public campgrounds use straight back in that is level left to right. Front to back slope can be less well controlled.
"3) Like I said, this is a well travelled road leading towards a major skiing/vacation area in southern Vermont. There is some traffic up until the early morning hours so one can expect to hear it. Is that a major deal breaker for staying there?"
Some like it hot. Some like it cold. Some like it in between. I like it at least 20 feet from a well traveled road.
Far from the road is nice as long as I can get my vehicle out if it rains. Vermont has a lot more rain than western deserts.
"4) I plan to sink a shallow well. Vermont lets land owners do that themelves... 20' deep or less... which should work for me being there is a river nearby. Is a well (hand pump type) something you would make use of?"
Any source of water is appreciated. Travel Trailers and Motor Homes usually carry a significant amount of potable water on board. Tent campers appreciate a local source more.
Small trailers and vans may not have black water holding tanks. Disposing of human waste is an issue. Designated pit for digging, dumping, and covering would be good. You said you are a tent camper, so you probably understand.
__________________
Paul Bristol
Kodiak Cub 176RD
Nissan Pathfinder 2015
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 09:46 AM
|
#3
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 32
|
Seems my good intentions may be fraught with all kinds of negative consequences.
There are some apps or sites that require registration. Perhaps if the user's identity is known they might be more respectful of my offer?
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 11:04 AM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Jayco Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 521
|
You could join Boondocker's Welcome:
https://www.boondockerswelcome.com/s...hoCAVwQAvD_BwE
Click on the "Become a Host" at the top.
They screen people and you can allow or not allow someone to stay. You have the opportunity to set up the stay time allowed as well.
You can allow overnight or a week, or what ever you wish.
You could do a guest by guest on the time limit.
I believe you are able to look at the guest's camping rig as well. Then you would be able to see if they have a decent rig or some beat up 30 year old junk that they have.
Just a suggestion.
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:01 PM
|
#5
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 32
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by stinger608
You could join Boondocker's Welcome...
|
Yes, thanks. I happened to find that site, earlier.
Have a message into them to see if they allow the "hosts" to not live on the land or have someone monitor the visitors. I like the idea of some kind of pre-screening or at least accountability if problems arise.
Although, it will present obstacles and likely reduce the visitors to that very lovely spot.
Frankly, I'm surprised to hear there are so many issues. I was under the impression (my naiveite I guess  ) RVer's, for the most part, were well mannered, if that's the correct term.
This whole idea of Leave No Trace .
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:16 PM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 938
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterspal
Yes, thanks. I happened to find that site, earlier.
Have a message into them to see if they allow the "hosts" to not live on the land or have someone monitor the visitors. I like the idea of some kind of pre-screening or at least accountability if problems arise.
Although, it will present obstacles and likely reduce the visitors to that very lovely spot.
Frankly, I'm surprised to hear there are so many issues. I was under the impression (my naiveite I guess  ) RVer's, for the most part, were well mannered, if that's the correct term.
This whole idea of Leave No Trace .
|
Everyone claims to practice “Leave no trace” camping. However there are traces literally everywhere.
It is likely the neighbors will eventually realize what is going on and raise a ruckus with you and all the local authorities. A well could open you up to a lawsuit since it could be construed as a public water supply due to your usage as an unpermitted campground. You will need a good liability insurance policy should an accident happen. The government has immunity for accidents on BLM land and the like. Private property does not.
It might go great. It might not. As Harry Callahan said”Do you feel lucky?”.
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:20 PM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Hoodsport Wa
Posts: 3,365
|
Great idea, but once developed I’d definitely gate and lock the driveway and install private property/no trespassing signs. Not all who own RVs are responsible stewards of their surroundings. Some are just downright despicable. Once they’ve squatted, we’ll, now you can have real problems. Make it available for friends and family. The boondockers welcome idea sounds like it might work for you also.
BTW, one of the best dogs we ever had was a Chester.
(the kitty molester lol)
__________________
2000 Alpine 36 FDS #74058
"Go fast enough to get there, but slow enough to see”
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:22 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Clovis, CA, USA
Posts: 13,715
|
The 'Leaf Peepers' will love it! Will it be available year round?
__________________
2004 Monaco La Palma 36DBD, W22, 8.1, 7.1 MPG
2000 LEXUS RX300 FWD 22MPG 4020 LBS
The train is off the tracks.
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:31 PM
|
#9
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 32
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigceasar
Everyone claims to practice “Leave no trace” camping. However there are traces literally everywhere.
|
RVer's are no better than the general public, apparently.
Quote:
It is likely the neighbors will eventually realize what is going on and raise a ruckus with you and all the local authorities.
|
I'd clear things with them, prior.
Quote:
A well could open you up to a lawsuit since it could be construed as a public water supply due to your usage as an unpermitted campground.
|
OK, guess you'll need to supply your own water folks
Quote:
You will need a good liability insurance policy should an accident happen. The government has immunity for accidents on BLM land and the like. Private property does not.
|
Actually, Vermont (as in some other states like Connecticut) has a liability waiver that covers land owners who allow the public to use their land without charging a fee. They cannot be sued.
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:41 PM
|
#10
|
Member
Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 32
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine36
Great idea.
|
Thank you
Quote:
BTW, one of the best dogs we ever had was a Chester.
(the kitty molester lol)
|
This is my Chester
With his kitty brothers in the truck
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:44 PM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Watertown NY USA
Posts: 6,755
|
A lot of good responses here. All valid.
My response would be INSURANCE, INSURANCE and INSURANCE.
You never know what may or could happen but as the landowner you might be found or held responsible for most anything that could happen on your property. Even though you might not be found responsible, if there was a lawsuit brought against you, you will have expenses defending yourself in a court of law.
Remember. "If it wasn't for lawyers you'd never need one".
You will also have to check with the powers to be and search the zoning laws for the area you are intending to use for this.
All the signage you can put up will be worthless if a suit is brought against you.
__________________
2002 Fleetwood Storm 30H on Workhorse P32 chassis 8.1 gas.
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:46 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2021
Posts: 938
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterspal
RVer's are no better than the general public, apparently.
I'd clear things with them, prior.
OK, guess you'll need to supply your own water folks
Actually, Vermont (as in some other states like Connecticut) has a liability waiver that covers land owners who allow the public to use their land without charging a fee. They cannot be sued.
|
You better get a true legal opinion on that Vermont liability waiver. There has to be many requirements, otherwise people would never be liable for accidents on their property. For example, if someone visiting a home has a fall the homeowner can’t escape liability by claiming the injured party didn’t pay to visit and were recreating.
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:50 PM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2024
Location: Grand Mesa, Colorado
Posts: 1,021
|
Two separate sections of 8 foot high fence with two 16 feet long gates to open and get pass onto our property. No signs. Most folks traveling pass aren't even aware that we have a hidden between trees a private drive. Boondocking is readily available nearby. Not to discourage boondocking, but at our I-70 rest stops near our rural exit it soon became overwhelmed with homeless encampments during the Covid-19 lockdowns. They are now off-limits to boondocking.
|
|
|
02-10-2024, 12:57 PM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Whitney, TX
Posts: 2,027
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by chesterspal
Guess I have not found any cheerleaders so far.
|
I think everyone who has responded appreciates the offer, the idea. Just,
1) there are several potential pitfalls that would end up being major problems for you,
2) while some on this forum do a substantial amount of real boondocking, most do not, and folks here tend to own larger rigs than most of the people who have RVs,
3) no one has mentioned weight issues.
The average Class A motorhome (gasoline engine) weighs between 22,000 and 26,000 pounds. A simple gravel pad created by a few truckloads of gravel dumped and smoothed might be subject to rigs getting stuck. If you have much rain or are near a waterway.
Diesel powered rigs go from 30,000 to 55,000 pounds in weight.
My brother owns 20 acres in rural Arkansas. I never took my combined total weight of 18,000 lbs pickup and travel trailer to his home. Been offered 'free' camping while in our hometown area on almost every trip. I'm certainly not trying my current 30k plus rig there.
Mainly because I don't trust the county highway department installed culverts, I would have to cross to get there to take the weight.
And turning around would be tight. I certainly do not trust anything off the road in that soil if it is slightly damp.
Similarly, the four of us children still alive jointly own about 20 acres of our grandparents 80 acres farm. Several other cousins own the rest.
There is a bridge marked for a 9.5 tons load limit to get down the Parish Road to get to the property. (it's in Louisiana)
Turn Around Room - even a pickup with a small 20 ft long trailer will take about 80' of area to turn around.
Can you do it, offer free boondocking?
Certainly. I would strongly suggest that you talk to a local attorney in that area about possible issues. All of us here, have not actual knowledge of local laws and other potential issues. Just things we've seen or heard about in the past.
On the positive side, I think you would not be very busy. While there must be a lot of tent campers and no-hookups trailer campers in the state (based upon the lack of hookups at most VT state parks), it is not an area known for off grid camping - at least by RV folks.
Another question - how will you limit occupancy?
Someone arriving after a trip purposely to camp at your location, and finding another campers already setup might well just move to a location a few dozen feet away. You could potentially end up with quite a few people on the site over a weekend like Labor Day.
The idea is a wonderful, thoughtful gesture.
Just we hope it does not become a negative experience for you.
|
|
|
 |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|