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Old 07-20-2017, 01:30 PM   #1
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Inverter install help needed

I asked this question on the vintage board few days ago and have not got any responses, was hoping you guys and gals would have more information since you rely on them more.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f65/insta...er-350281.html

Thanks,
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Old 07-20-2017, 02:20 PM   #2
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Converters MAKE 12 volt DC, FROM 120 volts AC shore or generator power.

Inverters MAKE 120 volt AC, FROM 12 volts DC.

Picture 1, is of a converter. If it works leave it. It charges your batteries and powers your 12 volt devices. It has nothing to do with making 120 volts AC.

Picture 2, looks like a transfer switch. That supplies 120 volt power to the circuit breaker box from 2 sources, the shore power cord or the generator. You don't need to deal with that.

Picture 3, is of a charger on the right and an inverter on the left. You don't need the charger if yours works.

The inverter should be placed close to the batteries but not in the same compartment and wired with large gauge ( 2 or 0 ) cables.

The downloadable Xantrex manual will explain what to use.

Then just plug an extension cord in it and run it to the spot you want power.

There are more sophisticated methods to tie in the inverter, but I don't think your experence with electricity is ready for that.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:26 PM   #3
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Thank you for the reply. Now it makes sense why I only have 120AC power when my generator is running. I want to install the inverter so I can have 120AC without running the generator while cruising down the road. With the breaker panel removed I can see my house battery leads coming into the compartment and intend to tie invertor in there. Should be easy enough with a couple of ring terminals and some good welding cable.

As far as my electrical experience goes, I have plenty with 12volt systems and know enough about 120AC to get most tasks done, but I am new to the RV world and wanted to make sure I knew what I had before trying to change it out. The newer charger has a float setting and if I add batteries I want to avoid boiling them when its sits in my driveway plugged in. Its not a priority right now but Will be in the future.

I want to tie the invertor into the current breaker so I have power on the outlets whenever the house switch is "on". I would assume running a connection from the outlet on the invertor to the outlet breaker on the MH would make that happen. If I wanted to have the ability to use the generator, shore power, or the invertor would I be able to do that by simply adding the invertor to the circuit? Will I need to add a switch to isolate each system until needed?

Like I said I am not new to fixing this stuff or even installing shore power onto trucks, but motorhomes don't seem to follow the "norm" at times.

Thanks,
DS79
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
Converters MAKE 12 volt DC, FROM 120 volts AC shore or generator power.

Inverters MAKE 120 volt AC, FROM 12 volts DC.

Picture 1, is of a converter. If it works leave it. It charges your batteries and powers your 12 volt devices. It has nothing to do with making 120 volts AC.

Picture 2, looks like a transfer switch. That supplies 120 volt power to the circuit breaker box from 2 sources, the shore power cord or the generator. You don't need to deal with that.

Picture 3, is of a charger on the right and an inverter on the left. You don't need the charger if yours works.

The inverter should be placed close to the batteries but not in the same compartment and wired with large gauge ( 2 or 0 ) cables.

The downloadable Xantrex manual will explain what to use.

Then just plug an extension cord in it and run it to the spot you want power.

There are more sophisticated methods to tie in the inverter, but I don't think your experence with electricity is ready for that.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:34 PM   #4
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What type inverter are you wanting to install?
Some are a pass through type that will transfer power automatically.
See image below for a system with a sub panel fed by the main panel through the inverter.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:50 PM   #5
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The charger in the picture looks like a 20 or 40 amp Xantrex charger. At 20 amps It will be inadequate. If it's 40 amps, it will be marginal if you add more batteries to charge.

If you want to limit your generator time, get at least a 75 amp charger.

Make sure the cables comming from the batteries are large enough for the inverter draw.

Xantrex recommends running directly to the battery with only a proper size fuse in the positive cable.

Dealing with the inverter output, it can not take any backfeed from another 120 volt source, so it will need a transfer switch to power your outlets. Xantrex makes them for their inverters.

You don't want to power your most of your MH. The fridge, if gas/electric should stay on gas.

The water heater, air conditiones and microwave will probably overload it.

You must not have the charger running off the inverter power. Its like a dog chasing its tail. That will drain your batteries quickly.

If the breaker, you want to use, is for the outlets only, cut the wire after the breaker, and add in the Xantrex auto transfer switch. That way the circuit is still protected while on shore or generator power.

If that inverter is a ProSine ( can't tell in the picture ) it may have the auto transfer switch in it. Then just cut the wire from the breaker and wire it in.

You could use a single pole double throw switch and do it manually. Just don't send 120 volts to the inverter.
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Old 07-24-2017, 02:22 PM   #6
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Thanks again for the reply twinboat, we took the kids for their first weekend in the RV and it went pretty well actually. They seemed to enjoy and aside from raining everyday it was fun.

After reading the post I think I needed more pictures of what I actually am trying to use. Again, its not that I don't know what I am doing, but more I don't know if I have what I need. I hate doing things twice, without having a good reason for it. I attached a couple pics of the charger and the inverter. These were used in conjunction with a 4 pack of 12volt AGM batteries and I think an APU. The batteries were isolated from the truck completely and I don't think were tied to the APU either. I know the draw would not have been nearly that high in a truck so I am sure the charger was never really taxed or was given plenty of time to charge everything back up.

If I can, I want to make all of the outlets "hot" while we drive down the road. The fridge works great on gas, we won't or shouldn't need the micro, and if its that hot I'll run the generator for the A/C. Though, I think the chassis A/C needs some love and it would handle the task while driving. This RV was never built to have the TV on while driving, my kids want that option. The plan is to swap out the old TV's for new flatscreens and a DVD player, maybe a gaming system or laptop to control the network.

I look forward to reading your response, I think I have a plan for how to do it, but I will wait for more information before I dive into that.
Thanks,
DS79

Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
The charger in the picture looks like a 20 or 40 amp Xantrex charger. At 20 amps It will be inadequate. If it's 40 amps, it will be marginal if you add more batteries to charge.

If you want to limit your generator time, get at least a 75 amp charger.

Make sure the cables comming from the batteries are large enough for the inverter draw.

Xantrex recommends running directly to the battery with only a proper size fuse in the positive cable.

Dealing with the inverter output, it can not take any backfeed from another 120 volt source, so it will need a transfer switch to power your outlets. Xantrex makes them for their inverters.

You don't want to power your most of your MH. The fridge, if gas/electric should stay on gas.

The water heater, air conditiones and microwave will probably overload it.

You must not have the charger running off the inverter power. Its like a dog chasing its tail. That will drain your batteries quickly.

If the breaker, you want to use, is for the outlets only, cut the wire after the breaker, and add in the Xantrex auto transfer switch. That way the circuit is still protected while on shore or generator power.

If that inverter is a ProSine ( can't tell in the picture ) it may have the auto transfer switch in it. Then just cut the wire from the breaker and wire it in.

You could use a single pole double throw switch and do it manually. Just don't send 120 volts to the inverter.
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Old 07-24-2017, 06:02 PM   #7
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Skip the existing 12v breaker box and its wiring. You need to wire the inverter directly to the batteries, and locate it next to the batteries to minimize wire run.

To give you an idea - I have 1500w inverter - with a 6' run of 2AWG, and I get too much voltage drop when at Max load (coffee maker) so my inverter sings its low battery song.... I plan on relocating it next to the batteries and rewiring with 2/0

The next question is how much capacity do you want? 1500watt is too small really to run a 15amp appliance - 2000watts would be better. Remember, you never just run one thing even if you think you do....when that microwave is on, something else is also competing. Moral of the story, the bigger the inverter the better.

You do need to isolate the inverter from the 120V system when its powered by other sources - say shore power or a generator. A automatic transfer switch is the way to go in that situation.
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Old 07-24-2017, 11:01 PM   #8
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Be sure to include a fuse between the battery and inverter. You can install a second transfer switch near the 120 vac load center. This will switch to the inverter whenever the inverter is powered on, if the inverter is off it will be powered either by shore power or generator as determined by the first transfer switch.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:10 PM   #9
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Not to complicate things but there is an "inverter/charger" which I believe would permit you to get rid of your converter, one less thing to worry about. Some inverter/chargers I also believe have a built in auto transfer switch so that when you are plugged in or using your gen they will power things.

The inverter next to the batteries might not be a great idea because of heat etc, close is good but not next to Wiring, from the battery bank to the inverter, the bigger the better even if it is a short run. That is my 2 cents.....and remember it's only 2 cents
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Old 07-30-2017, 07:11 AM   #10
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I like to keep mine simple. I plug my triplite inverter into to the main power cord and just shut it off via remote switch when I fire up the generator. I do however, shut off the breaker to the converter as I don't want to drain my battery bank to charge my battery bank. ( did that make sense)
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